Resolving inconsistencies in the API.

[robertnishihara]

Right now, there are several inconsistencies in the API. Some of the following may be fine.

1. We change the way that we call remote functions (versus regular functions), that is f.remote() versus f(). But we do not change the way we instantiate actors (versus regular classes), both are just Class().

2. We change the way we call remote functions (versus regular functions), that is f.remote() versus f(), but we do not change the way we call actor methods (versus regular class methods). Both are c.method().

3. The word remote is an adjective, but actor is a noun.

There are a handful of options.

A. (addresses 1 and 3) Replace @ray.remote and @ray.actor with @ray.task and @ray.actor respectively. Call remote functions with f.remote(). Create actors with Class.remote().

B. (addresses 1 and 3) Replace both @ray.remote and @ray.actor with @ray.remote. Call remote functions with f.remote(). Create actors with Class.remote().

C. (addresses 1 and 3) Replace both @ray.remote and @ray.actor with @ray.remote. Call remote functions with f.task(). Create actors with Class.actor().

Note that none of these address problem (2). The issue with (2) is that calling c.method.remote() or something like that is kind of verbose. There are probably good options that I'm not thinking of right now.

cc @jacobandreas @pcmoritz @istoica

[istoica]

How about asking people around about their preferences?

Any of the choices are far preferable to what we have today, though I slightly prefer A and B over C.

Also, I'd seriously consider adding "remote" to actor method invocation. Yes, it's a bit long but its consistent with what we are telling people about remote functions, i.e., you need to write f.remote() instead of f() to explicitly signal that a remote function call returns an object id, instead of just an object. BTW, that's one reason I prefer A and B over C:, it's easier to add a suffix (i.e., remote) to method invocations.

[pcmoritz]

I'm also in favor of A or B over C (f.task() feels unnatural). I like B because of its uniformity and A because it does emphasize that tasks and actors are pretty different concepts.

[jacobandreas]

(A) is my favorite for same reasons as Philipp. There's also another option: D. Use @ray.task and @ray.actor. Call remote functions with f(). Create actors with Class(). (i.e. totally removing the special remote-call syntax). This is even more uniform, since remote task and actor calls look the same, but not sure how important you think it is to visually distinguish the call that starts the remote worker.

…

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:16 AM Philipp Moritz ***@***.***> wrote: I'm also in favor of A or B over C (f.task() feels unnatural). I like B because of its uniformity and A because it does emphasize that tasks and actors are pretty different concepts. — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#525 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAOaT8eYcpA0orXj94cJuNpbc_P_pRWsks5r3sFfgaJpZM4NTVBS> .

[istoica]

I'm fine with both A and D. Note that D will also address (2) implicitly. So why not do (D)?

[robertnishihara]

(D) might be good. It certainly resolves problem (2).

Possible disadvantages of (D):

1. Suppose f is a remote function and we want to add in the ability to call f locally in a blocking manner. Then it isn't clear how to do this if we do (D). That said, there are easy workarounds, since the user can just define f without the decorator, and then define f_remote = ray.remote(f), so they could call f for the blocking version and f_remote for the non-blocking version.

2. Currently, if a user is parallelizing an existing code base, and they decorate a function f with @ray.remote, then all existing invocations of f() will automatically raise exceptions, so the user will immediately be made aware of which parts of the code they need to change. This is pretty useful I think. I suppose this is also an argument for changing actor method invocations.

3. Invoking functions with .remote potentially makes the code more readable.

Note that there is a somewhat fundamental asymmetry between remote functions and actor methods. That is, remote functions could in principle be executed remotely or locally in the same process. However, actor methods can only be executed remotely on the worker process that actually contains the actor state.

[istoica]

I chatted more with Philipp today, and here are my preferences:

(a) Either A or B + adding remote to methods, i.e., class.method.remote(). I know this is verbose but it is clear and consistent. If we tell people that we use f.remote() because we want to make them aware that a remote function returns an object_id, then we should do the same for methods. Otherwise, we might create confusion.

(b) D, again because it solves (2), though I agree with Robert's concerns, hence its my 2nd preference.

(c) Either A or B; this is last because it doesn't solve (2)

All of the above are much better than what we have today, so one thing I want to make sure is that we pick one and go for it before the release. We do not want to get into one of these cases where the "perfect is the enemy of good" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good)

[robertnishihara]

Ok, maybe solution (A) + adding remote to actor method calls is the way to go. I'll try converting some of the applications and see how it feels.

Note, I like (A) more than (B) because we find it very useful when describing the system to use the word "actors", and (A) clearly links the concept of actors to the API.

[istoica]

A + a.method.remote, sounds good to me.

BTW, note that adding remote for methods has another advantage. It allows one to call local methods in the same actor for better code structuring (like private methods in classic OO languages). That is, if a method call doesn't have remote, the call is local, in the same actor instance. Philipp mentioned that this is one thing some people asked during the minicamp, which makes sense.

[robertnishihara]

That actually works already. If I understand you correctly, you can do the following.

@ray.actor
class Foo(object):
  def private_helper(self):
    pass

  def method(self):
    # Call helper method.
    self.private_helper()

The reason this makes sense is that there is never any ambiguity about where an actor method call runs. It always runs on the actor worker, so there is no option of running locally versus remotely.

[robertnishihara]

A + a.method.remote is implemented in #541.

[robertnishihara]

One last proposal. How about the following.

Remote functions

• Declare with @ray.function.
• Invoke with f.remote().

Actors

• Declare with @ray.class.
• Instantiate with Class.remote().
• Invoke methods with Class.method.remote().

I really like the word "actor", so I'm not thrilled to get rid of it, but class is more analogous to function.

[pcmoritz]

+1

[istoica]

I'm fine with it.

I think this is probably the most consistent proposal since these are indeed functions and classes. The only thing is that it doesn't expose the key concepts of ray: tasks and actors, but probably it's ok. We can say:

• task is an instance of remote function invocation;
• actor is an instance of a remote actor;

The one thing to think about is whether this will generalize naturally to other bindings which we might have in the future, e.g., Java, Scala, C++, etc. I think it does, but haven't thought at all...

[atumanov]

I love the move to function and class. Getting rid of actor is actually a good thing, IMHO. The notion of a class was actually invented to encapsulate state -- it was the original OO motivation for it, so it's very fitting to call it a class semantically.

I also strongly support the unification of the calling interface for functions and methods with the remote suffix. The only tweak I would consider is getting rid of the remote suffix when instantiating the Ray Class. That way, all calls to remote can participate in the hybrid dataflow, return an object ID, and are easily identifiable in the code as places that trigger task submission to Ray. I think it's important that we have this futures composition marker well defined.