[v3] remove old v2 code entirely

[d-v-b]

This is a more broad alternative to #1791 -- basically we remove all the old v2 code in favor of the v3 efforts. Happy to hear thoughts on this.

[jeromekelleher]

What are the implications for backward compatibility?

[d-v-b]

@jeromekelleher the proposed change would remove API backwards compatibility, but I don't think we plan to keep the v2 API when we release v3 anyway -- v2 has a very large API surface area, it would be a burden to maintain purely for legacy reasons.

The v3 codebase does support reading zarr v2, so removing the v2 code does not change functional compatibility with zarr v2.

@jni suggested that we publish the final release of zarr-python 2.X on pypi as zarr2 or something similar, to ensure that zarr 3.x and zarr 2.x can co-exist in the same python environment. I think this is a good idea, but there might be alternatives to consider.

[jeromekelleher]

I see - if there's good compatibility on v2 stores with the new v3 code, and reasonable backward compatibility with old code bases, then I agree cutting out the old v2 code entirely is the right approach.

As an invested user, I'm just a bit anxious that we're not contemplating a Python 2 to Python 3 style change here!

[d-v-b]

As an invested user, I'm just a bit anxious that we're not contemplating a Python 2 to Python 3 style change here!

Can you elaborate on this?

[jeromekelleher]

Well, discussions about making a new v2 package and/or maintaining the old v2 code within the Zarr-Python repo raise questions about compatibility. If good compatibility with existing v2 stores and code was a first-order concern, then these wouldn't even be on the table, I would have thought.

but I don't think we plan to keep the v2 API when we release v3 anyway -- v2 has a very large API surface area, it would be a burden to maintain purely for legacy reasons.

That's quite a big thing, though. I agree there's a lot of sprawl around the v2 API that could be removed without breaking much, but surely there's an idiomatic core of functionality around creating/opening/reading/writing arrays that will be the same? Are there deprecations on the bits of v2 that are going to break when v3 drops?

I think you guys are doing a great job by the way, I just want to get my head around what's being planned here. I would rather not have my code broken unless it's necessary, but I understand you've got to break some eggs sometimes.

[d-v-b]

@jeromekelleher

I think you guys are doing a great job by the way, I just want to get my head around what's being planned here. I would rather not have my code broken unless it's necessary, but I understand you've got to break some eggs sometimes.

Your code will not break if you pin your zarr-python dependency to 2.x. However, if you upgrade to zarr-python 3.x, your code will break. You should be able to recover broken functionality by adapting your code to the new APIs in zarr-python 3.x, because 3.x will be fully compatible with the zarr v2 format, but the amount of effort required to adapt your code will depend on what zarr-python 2.x APIs you were depending on. If you do not need to use zarr v3 and you want to keep code maintenance to a minimum, then I recommend not upgrading to zarr-python 3.x.

There are two possibilities to minimize disruption. The first would be to include the old zarr-python 2.x codebase in 3.x. We rejected this possibility for reasons that were discussed earlier in this issue. The second would be to publish the last zarr-python 2.x release on pypi as zarr2 or something similar; in this case, if you want to use zarr-python 3.x alongside the zarr-python 2.x API, you would need to change import zarr to import zarr2 as zarr; import zarr as zarr3 or equivalent and everything should work.

[jeromekelleher]

I see - so we are doing Python 2 -> Python 3 then... I wouldn't underestimate the disruption and ill-will caused by suddenly breaking people's code with a version update. If it is a major change and widespread breakage is expected, then I think a new "zarr3" package should at least be considered.

Is there some documentation about what's going to break and not?

[d-v-b]

I see - so we are doing Python 2 -> Python 3 then...

I don't think breaking changes to zarr-python, signaled by a major version increment, is quite the same scale as breaking changes to python itself. A better model might be the pydantic 1 to 2 transition, which (for me) wasn't too painful (but I know other projects had a worse experience). Although people (including me) did have to change their code or pin pydantic to 1.x, I don't think there was substantial ill will towards the pydantic developers, because the changes were communicated ahead of time, and the changes were largely improvements. If anything, by publishing zarr-python 2.x as zarr2, we would be going above and beyond what the pydantic devs did for backwards compatibility -- as far as I know, the pydantic devs never published pydantic 1.x as a stand-alone package on pypi, which did create friction for people wanted to migrate from pydantic 1 to 2 incrementally.

If it is a major change and widespread breakage is expected, then I think a new "zarr3" package should at least be considered.

If I recall correctly, a stand-alone "zarr3" proposal did come up in past discussions, but we decided against it it for a variety of reasons. First, there are problems with making a completely new package as a response to breaking changes. This would be simple for users who don't want to change their code, but it would harm many other users. New users will be confused when they see zarr and zarr3 in pypi; users who specifically need zarr v3 would be understandably annoyed when they install zarr only to find that it doesn't support zarr v3; as zarr-python 2.x will no longer be developed, pip install zarr would produce increasingly stale code with no developer support.

And, as a matter of precedent, we have signaled breaking changes with the major version number before: zarr-python 1.x supported zarr v1, but via major breaking changes, zarr-python moved to 2.x, dropping support for zarr v1 (and without splitting the project into zarr and zarr2.)

Is there some documentation about what's going to break and not?

We still need to provide resources for people migrating from zarr-python 2.x to 3.x, and a big part of that is documentation, which has not been written yet. I think this #1769 specifically tracks adding docs for breaking changes.

[jeromekelleher]

Thanks @d-v-b, all very helpful.

Maybe I should open an issue for this, but has adding deprecation warnings to stuff that's going to break in Zarr v3 to the current v2 code been considered? This would be a helpful thing for people who don't necessarily keep up to date with package development, and would at least get a warning that their code will break in the near future (and need to start pinning their deps to zarr<3).

[d-v-b]

@jhamman has been putting some deprecation warnings in for features that will be removed completely in v3: #1801, but I don't think we have explored deprecation warnings beyond this area.

[jni]

I don't think there was substantial ill will towards the pydantic developers,

uuuh. 😅

as far as I know, the pydantic devs never published pydantic 1.x as a stand-alone package on pypi, which did create friction for people wanted to migrate from pydantic 1 to 2 incrementally.

Correct. 😉 This is why I think the zarr2 idea is the bare minimum for this migration.

In that situation, even folks who don't get the memo, and whose code inadvertently breaks when v3 is released, have a very quick pressure release valve for e.g. getting their CI green again: replace zarr with zarr2 in their dependencies (potentially (probably) also in their imports), and done. They can then migrate their code, maybe even their data, as leisurely as they like by following our migration guide.

And, as a matter of precedent, we have signaled breaking changes with the major version number before

I wasn't around then, but I suspect the number of folks depending on zarr was much smaller then. So I don't think it's such a direct comparison.

[normanrz]

but surely there's an idiomatic core of functionality around creating/opening/reading/writing arrays that will be the same?

I think this is the main missing piece of this discussion. We are keeping the same top level API for open and create as well as for reading and writing array data. My guess is that for >90% of users their code will still function as before. @jhamman recently did a test where he upgraded xarray to zarr-python 3 without much hassle.
Mostly, users will need to change their code if they want to use the version 3 format (because of different metadata and codecs) and if they use stores that we're deprecating.