Deprecation of the meter pattern

[Sereza7]

Hello!

When looking for information on how to make sure my meter element is sufficiently accessible, I stumbled on this pattern in the APG. From what I understand, it goes against the first rule of ARIA, because HTML now supports <meter> with min, max and value attributes.
From what I could see, the support is also pretty good on browser.
I am not sure of the state of things for screen readers and other assistive technologies though.

With a confirmation of correct support on ATs, I think it would make sense to remove, deprecate or at least put a warning on this pattern and the example going alongside it.

Thank you!

[JAWS-test]

or at least put a warning on this pattern

The warning is at every detail page, e.g.: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/meter/examples/meter/#support-notice-header (Please press the button "The code in this example is not intended for production environments. Before using it for any purpose, read this to understand why." to open the warning)

[css-meeting-bot]

The ARIA Authoring Practices (APG) Task Force just discussed Deprecation of the meter pattern.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<jugglinmike> Subtopic: Deprecation of the meter pattern
<jugglinmike> github: https://github.com//issues/2905
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: We didn't deprecate, e.g. the button pattern, after it was added to HTML
<Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
<RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/23-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Though we do have language which discourages its use
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: When we deprecated the collapsable list box, we marked it as "deprecated", we removed all internal links to it from other patterns, and we told people on the collapsable list box page, "use the select-only combobox, instead"
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Wheras discouraging--on the "button" pattern, we only have language related to discouraging its use
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I believe the right answer here is to discourage but not deprecate
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Does anyone disagree?
<jugglinmike> [no response]
<Jem> no disagreement
<Jem> but the prospective for the answer can include the goal of ARIA.
<Jem> re: why we created this example
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Hearing nothing, I will take ownership of this issue and report this decision
<Jem> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/meter/
<Jem> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/meter/examples/meter/
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: I actually don't see a warning on the "button pattern" page. And we don't have a warning on the "button example" page, either
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Maybe we do on the "link" page, though. That's where this is more consequential
<dmontalvo> note: Authors are strongly encouraged to use a native host language link element, such as an HTML <A> element with an href attribute. As with other WAI-ARIA widget roles, applying the link role to an element will not cause browsers to enhance the element with standard link behaviors, such as navigation to the link target or context menu actions. When using the link role, providing these features of the element is the author's
<dmontalvo> responsibility.
<dmontalvo> That's the warning message in the link pattern
<Jem> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/link/
<Jem> "note
<Jem> Authors are strongly encouraged to use a native host language link element, such as an HTML <A> element with an href attribute. As with other WAI-ARIA widget roles, applying the link role to an element will not cause browsers to enhance the element with standard link behaviors, such as navigation to the link target or context menu actions. When using the link role, providing these features of the element is the author's responsibility."
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: We have a note on the "link" page which "strongly encourage[s]" readers to use the native anchor element
<jugglinmike> Matt_King: Should we start sprinkling this kind of note in more of the patterns?
<jugglinmike> siri: I think the more general note about the purpose of ARIA (which the APG already has) is sufficient
<jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting

[mcking65]

@Sereza7

This is a good question.

Per discussion in today's meeting, we do not plan to deprecate meter or add additional warnings at this time.

Why not deprecate?

APG teaches how to appropriately use ARIA, which includes the meter role. ARIA also includes button, radio, and several other roles that are also exactly replicated in HTML.

Appropriate usage does include not using those roles unless there is legitimate need as described by the first rule of using ARIA that you reference. That does not mean never use them, so the APG is keeping meter, radio, button, and others in scope.

Why not add another warning?

The Read Me First, which is prominently placed on multiple pages, covers this. In addition, every example page includes a warning at the top that covers the first rule of using ARIA. For now, the task force believes this is sufficient.

For more information on the purpose and goals of the APG, see Introduction | APG | WAI | W3C.

Note also that the APG task force backlog includes:

1. Integrating more of "Using ARIA" into APG (Including relevant parts of "Using ARIA" in APG #2675)
2. Start adding examples of patterns that use minimal ARIA

These are longer term goals that currently do not have timelines.

If this does not fully address your question, feel free to re-open the issue with additional comments.

[Sereza7]

Thank you very much for your in-depth answer!

I agree with your logic and look forward to evolutions of the APG :)