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6 changes: 6 additions & 0 deletions minutes/2021-12-22.md
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# TLA+ Meeting 12/22/2021

12m:
* Recap of previous meeting; Linux foundation sounds best
* INRIA does not seem like a good idea for entities outside of France
* Apache foundation seems similar to Eclipse foundation

19m:
* Linux foundation seems like the path forward
* Markus attempted to join as a project but this was rejected for some reason
* Difficult part of joining Linux foundation: figuring out membership tiers
* Also need to identify possible member companies
* How much influence would companies have? What could they even influence?

23m:
* How do we identify member companies?
* See employers of people who follow TLA+ entity on LinkedIn
* Should we make the foundation effort public?
* Possible drawbacks: being sued for not being inclusive

29m:
* Shortlist of member companies
* Blockchain companies?

33m:
* Benefits of Linux foundation
* What level of commitment do we need from companies?
* Letters of intent should probably be the goal
* Talk with Chris from Linux foundation about how to approach this

42m:
* Action item: collect list of foundation members
* Head in direction of getting letter of intent
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8 changes: 8 additions & 0 deletions minutes/2022-01-25.md
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# TLA+ Meeting 01/25/2022

2m:
* Ron in contact with Oracle over some program to get money for researchers
* Meeting in late February
* Oracle had posted a verification engineer job based in India
* Ron is unsure which team inside Oracle posted this job; cloud? Blockchain?

11m:
* Going over chart of who should speak with what company
* Andrew & Hillel - ask about Facebook? Have they used TLA+?
* Facebook has asked around about TLA+ classes, uncertain whether any use
* Need to finish one-pager to send to companies; Ron will work on this
* Should membership structure be included in one-pager?

15m:
* What about mid-size companies like CockroachDB, etc.
* What would those mid-size companies want out of funding the foundation?
* Anything less than $50k/year commitment from companies probably not worth effort

20m:
* Use foundation as certification entity? Certified TLA+ engineer
* Many other Linux foundation projects take this approach
* Can certify teachers of TLA+ instead of engineers themselves
* Markus is teaching TLA+ at Microsoft now

23m:
* Consensus seems to be joining the Linux foundation
* Trademark has to be moved to open source entity
* For leaving, if we remain open source we can get trademark back (probably)
* Onboarding to Linux foundation temporarily blocked for non-blockchain projects?

28m:
* If we just get Microsoft and Amazon, that should be enough to start
* Microsoft already gives a lot of money to TLA+ internally
* Letters of intent - they have to talk to legal departments
* Is it required to have donors before graduating from project to foundation?
* Can Microsoft's internal TLA+ support be redirected to foundation?

47m:
* Action items

50m:
* Discussion about model-based testing vs. trace validation
11 changes: 11 additions & 0 deletions minutes/2022-02-25.md
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* Discuss Hillel's community survey questions
* Leslie reached out to Facebook
* Government support for TLA+?

10m:
* Linux foundation gave us material from GraphQL foundation
* How can we actually decide membership & governance levels?
* We don't know what our budget is

16m:
* Should we allow funds to be earmarked through the foundation?
* If companies want earmarks they can contract people directly

21m:
* How many people are needed to just maintain the software?
* Probably around two full-time people are needed
* Two people might be able to implement some simple features too
* If we get $300k/year that would be good

25m:
* $150k/year is not that much for a large company
* Focus on how to get the first dollar
* Regular membership is much lower than $150k/year usually
* Membership is mostly for individuals and small companies?
* $150k/year large company membership? Ideally committing to multiple years.

31m:
* Who manages the engineers we hire?
* Do large FOSS projects even have managers?
* Depends on scale: they're called reviewers
* There will be a board, they set a general agenda & roadmap
* Hire senior engineer (self-managing) and junior engineer

37m:
* Can senior engineer make modifications to TLA+ language itself?
* No, it has to go through RFC process and steering community
* Who sits on the steering committee? What does governance look like?
* On OpenJDK you need to get voted into the steering committee
* Linux foundation would take around 9% of membership fees

42m:
* Need to decide process by which people are appointed to steering committee
* How much do we need to figure out before we form the foundation?
* Do member companies care about the steering committee?

47m:
* Scope of board vs. steering community
* Generally people appointed to board aren't technical?

50m:
* Is governance structure a roadblock?
* There will be feedback loops between steering cmte & board
* Should there be a BDFL-type person who holds ultimate appeal?
* BFT-type 66% vote threshold on steering community?
* We currently have BDFL-type setup with Leslie right now

60m:
* What level of detail do we need for the constitution?
* Have any books been written about this stuff?
* Ron update: work with Oracle ERO (work with external researches)
* Ron presented to ERO board about online trace checking
* Stefan Merz will get the funding
* Ron also integrated Leslie's comments into executive summary

66m:
* Work items before next meeting

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