Alt Text for Media

[theycallhermax]

This RFC is for adding the ability to add alt texts to media.

[DeclanChidlow]

This would obviously be excellent from an accessibility stand point. As it stands, Revolt isn't very friendly for the visually impaired. Revite is not very accessible to a screen reader.

The new client should hopefully solve the screen reader issues but the ability to add alt text to images would be a big step up.

As it stands, the image model could do with some work. Spoilers can currently only be added by modifying the image's filename so a redesigned system that adds the ability to add spoilers and alt text, potentially alongside some editing functions would be excellent.

Even if this feature is implemented, many users won't use it. It could be an idea to parse content through an image recognition model to automatically generate descriptions. This could be costly though and there are potential privacy implications.

[sharkaccino]

alt text for all user-submitted images would be huge, honestly. emojis, server banners, maybe even profile backgrounds and avatars too.

[DeclanChidlow]

alt text for all user-submitted images would be huge, honestly. emojis, server banners, maybe even profile backgrounds and avatars too.

It would be excellent, but it would also be hard to enforce. If you force users to do it they'll input gibberish. If it's optional then many users won't care enough to bother. If you auto generate it then it could be inaccurate and introduce privacy issues.

[sharkaccino]

making it optional is the best route imo. you cant do anything about the fact that people are lazy, but gently encouraging it as a good practice would be better than what we have now.

also please god no automatic image recognition. that would arguably be worse than doing nothing at all

[DeclanChidlow]

also please god no automatic image recognition. that would arguably be worse than doing nothing at all

Say what you will, 'AI' image recognition is really good. It's much better then nothing.

It could be that users have the option to add alt text of their own, but visually impaired users have the option to enable 'AI' alt text platform wide for any images lacking it.

[lo2dev]

I made a related discussion on the org, with a focus on the design if anyone is curious
https://github.com/orgs/revoltchat/discussions/664

[lo2dev]

Having been on fedi for a while a lot of images have alt text even ones that may be hard to describe. This could be because of the local bubble and I overestimate people, but I would not implement AI at all and instead implement subtle hints to encourage adding alt text manually.

[lo2dev]

alt text for all user-submitted images would be huge, honestly. emojis, server banners, maybe even profile backgrounds and avatars too.

It would be excellent, but it would also be hard to enforce. If you force users to do it they'll input gibberish. If it's optional then many users won't care enough to bother. If you auto generate it then it could be inaccurate and introduce privacy issues.

Gibberish will happen on both cases. AI is Artificial Incompetence and users are Natural Incompetence. The former just takes more resources.

[DeclanChidlow]

AI is Artificial Incompetence

I've used GPT4-Vision for alt text before. It's really, really good. Down to being able to identify obscure dog breeds from a single picture and precise location from a picture of Aussie bush. Even if it is slightly inaccurate in rare cases, it's very much preferable to nothing.

[lo2dev]

AI is Artificial Incompetence

I've used GPT4-Vision for alt text before. It's really, really good. Down to being able to identify obscure dog breeds from a single picture and precise location from a picture of Aussie bush. Even if it is slightly inaccurate in rare cases, it's very much preferable to nothing.

Alright, but I am mostly against using AI because of bad players like OpenAI and the whole crytpo bro web3bro feeling around it. But I can see the utility here tho and if AI were to be used then if not required at least preferable for it to be Libre and ethical*. This is me saying that implementing just any AI is not a good thing IMO.

*I don't know how much ethics AI can have, but I guess it shouldn't be trained on copyrighted works.

[DeclanChidlow]

AI is a tool like any other. It should be treated as such, especially if it comes with benefits for people with visual impairments.

If AI is used, thought needs to be put into the potential privacy, security, and cost implications.

[lo2dev]

From what I see, AI is a highly illegal tool, but I do not want this to divulge into AI arguments so I'd much rather discuss the implementation side of things of alt text. I've fixed the link I sent earlier as I realized it was the wrong one.

[theycallhermax]

design concepts for alt text in both revite and new client:

[sharkaccino]

are the different colors for the "alt" label supposed to signify anything? also seems kinda small

[theycallhermax]

are the different colors for the "alt" label supposed to signify anything? also seems kinda small

yes, the green is supposed to signify that it has an alt text set, and red is supposed to signify that there isn't.

i'm thinking of changing this to something like ALT [check mark] so it could be understood better

[sharkaccino]

yeah, using colors like that is a really, really bad idea.

keep in mind a considerable number of people in the world are color blind, and it is one of the most common things to be addressed first when it comes to accessibility on the web.

[DeclanChidlow]

yeah, using colors like that is a really, really bad idea.

keep in mind a considerable number of people in the world are color blind, and it is one of the most common things to be addressed first when it comes to accessibility on the web.

As a whole Revolt is moving away from conveying info exclusively with colour. The new status icons for example.

[theycallhermax]

yeah, using colors like that is a really, really bad idea.

keep in mind a considerable number of people in the world are color blind, and it is one of the most common things to be addressed first when it comes to accessibility on the web.

yeah, using colors like that is a really, really bad idea.
keep in mind a considerable number of people in the world are color blind, and it is one of the most common things to be addressed first when it comes to accessibility on the web.

As a whole Revolt is moving away from conveying info exclusively with colour. The new status icons for example.

here is the new design with these in consideration:

i don't really have any experience in designing in material 3 so i think this will do

[aisuleep]

I think it would be better if the background and text colors were actually predefined to ensure they are always legible no matter the image underneath.
Following Material 3 design and similarly to this image from Loki's concept design, the background color would be black with a lowered opacity, while the text would be white.

[theycallhermax]

I think it would be better if the background and text colors were actually predefined to ensure they are always legible no matter the image underneath. Following Material 3 design and similarly to this image from Loki's concept design, the background color would be black with a lowered opacity, while the text would be white.

is this good? (m3 plugin thinks that white would be made into purple for some reason)

[theycallhermax]

changed the rfc's name to "Alt Text for Media" so that it would include more media types instead of images (videos, music, etc.)

[DeclanChidlow]

is this good? (m3 plugin thinks that white would be made into purple for some reason)

Colour can still be present for those who are capable of perceiving it. It still conveys information. It just shouldn't be the only way the information in conveyed.