How to edit files on device

[sfe-SparkFro]

First time playing with this plugin today, so please forgive me if I just missed something!

I have files on my MicroPython device that I want to edit. I can open and read the files just fine, but the files are seemingly read-only. Is there a way to make edits locally, then upon saving, have the new file uploaded to the device?

[lukaskremla]

Hello,

no worries, happy to help.

There is no feature for directly editing on-device files. You'd need to download it to your project and, make the changes, and then upload the file.

I know that, for example, Thonny allows this - but I decided against that. Unlike JetBrains IDEs Thonny doesn't have anything like the concept of a "Project" - so it makes sense that you might rely on your sources being on your device only.

But with this plugin my intention is to nudge people towards having all source code safely on their computer in their IDE in a project. Making changes to the code on the computer and then uploading it to the device.

The upload algorithm is highly optimized - skipping already optimized files, utilizing the REPL interface to transfer files as fast as the serial/WebREPL communication allows and there are features like the synchronization option in run configurations that allow you to work in your IDE and then ensure all changes and file deletions get propagated onto the board with one click.

I've gone into more detail in a different discussion #22, some of the information about uploads is outdated, as the upload feature has been finalized and fully documented, but it could be of interest.

You can also check the documentation to see all of the features that this plugin currently offers.

[sfe-SparkFro]

I've gone into more detail in a different discussion #22

Doh! I failed to properly search the discussions, my bad!

But with this plugin my intention is to nudge people towards having all source code safely on their computer in their IDE in a project. Making changes to the code on the computer and then uploading it to the device.

Hmm. I totally understand and agree with the motivation there, and that's definitely a great workflow! I don't want to discredit the benefits of that workflow, I may adapt my own workflow to this when it makes sense.

However as far as I can tell, users of this plugin are essentially forced into this project-style workflow, not nudged. And not all workflows work for all users, sometimes you just need to quickly tweak a file on the device. And perhaps that tweak should not be propagated into the main project. Or insert any other situation when being able to edit files on the device is beneficial. IMO "this workflow is best" is not great justification for preventing other workflows that have real benefits for other users in other situations.

Skimming #22, I understand there are challenges with syncing on-device edits with the project on your computer. One possible solution I see is to bypass those challenges by simply not synchronizing the on-device edits with the project. This enables the Thonny-style workflow that so many users are already accustomed to, just edit the files on the device. Obviously you then have the problem that the project files don't have those changes, uploading the project will overwrite those changes, and users could mistake whether they're doing on-device edits or project edits. That could be addressed by adding an opt-in checkbox to the settings, which clearly informs the user of these problems. Would that be a viable compromise?

Maybe that's just not in the cards for this plugin, fair enough. However my real motivation here is that I've not found a single tool for working with a MicroPython device that I can truly recommend to everyone, that satisfies everyone's needs, use cases, and workflows. This plugin forces users into a project-style workflow, but otherwise seems really good. Thonny seems to be the go-to recommendation, but it's got a lot of quirks and is too simple for advanced users. There's the MicroPico plugin for VS Code that works super well with supported devices, but it only works with Raspberry Pi Pico (not other RP2 boards) and some ESP32 boards (I think?), and development seems to be inactive. mpremote is a wonderful command line tool, but command line tools are pretty bad experiences for beginners, (and installing it on Windows is a bit of a nightmare).

From what I've seen in my very limited time with this plugin today, this seems to be the top contender for working with MicroPython devices. But not being able to edit files on the device (a very common workflow for current MicroPython users) is really holding me back from recommending it to everyone.

[lukaskremla]

I have - after answering your initial post in this discussion - went through some scenarios in my mind where I absolutely see the need to easily edit on-device files without having them all stored in the project.

Now - this is already possible. You can download the file, to your computer/project, open it in the editor, make your changes, and upload just the file with a run configuration, drag and drop or context menu action - but if the plugin did this for you, it would be easier.

As you suggested an opt-in checkbox in the settings, just like there is an opt-out checkbox for the upload previews, could work here.

At the same time - I myself would be expecting that if I open the file via a feature that says "open" that I'd be able to edit it not just read it - so maybe there should be something like an edit-mode checkbox right in the editor, perhaps with a confirmation dialog and a link to a more detailed explanation - this would make it more intuitive, since I admit that as a new user you don't expect a read-only view at first.

And I can see combining this with a edit-mode on by default toggle in the settings for people who's workflow is centered around that and who are well aware of what they're doing.

If I'd be doing this then I should probably also add a "New File" action to the File System widget - I wonder whether that should be on by default or also somehow toggleable - "New Folder" already exists, so perhaps it should be on by default as "New Folder" is.

For a while now I've been worried that the plugin is too complicated and daunting to use for new users - I've spent a lot of time optimizing the plugin for a professional workflow and it does precisely what I need - but I also work with MicroPython almost daily and a lot of this plugin's userbase seems consist of students, people curious about MicroPython and people tinkering with embedded.

I think that the solution might not be in simplifying and changing what the plugin does right now - but simply leaving run configurations, marking of folders etc. as an advanced workflow many won't need and adapt the Thonny style approach of working with the device directly, while avoiding its quirks and letting the users reach for the advanced features whenever they need as they need.

And I already have features such as drag and drop uploading/re-organizing and "New Folder" creating action which are rather redundant without the properly supporting the workflow of working with the device directly rather than going through run configurations and more-demanding project setup and structuring.

I'll look into this. I've not worked with the editor related code much at all yet, so it might take me some time - but I do agree that this feature would make the plugin more worthy of it's name "MicroPython Tools"

[sfe-SparkFro]

I'll look into this. I've not worked with the editor related code much at all yet, so it might take me some time - but I do agree that this feature would make the plugin more worthy of it's name "MicroPython Tools"

Thanks so much for considering this, really appreciate it!

I absolutely see the need to easily edit on-device files without having them all stored in the project.

Now - this is already possible. You can download the file, to your computer/project, open it in the editor, make your changes, and upload just the file with a run configuration, drag and drop or context menu action - but if the plugin did this for you, it would be easier.

Yes, it'd be great for the plugin to handle this behind the scenes or something similar, as that's a lot to ask of some users, especially beginners.

so maybe there should be something like an edit-mode checkbox right in the editor, perhaps with a confirmation dialog and a link to a more detailed explanation

I like this idea! It's much more obvious than the user needing to 1) realize that setting might exist, and 2) find it on their own.

And I already have features such as drag and drop uploading/re-organizing and "New Folder" creating action which are rather redundant without the properly supporting the workflow of working with the device directly rather than going through run configurations and more-demanding project setup and structuring.

I really appreciate that you've implemented these file management features, I'm not aware of any other MicroPython editors that enable this!

If I'd be doing this then I should probably also add a "New File" action to the File System widget - I wonder whether that should be on by default or also somehow toggleable - "New Folder" already exists, so perhaps it should be on by default as "New Folder" is.

Great idea, that would be super helpful!

I've spent a lot of time optimizing the plugin for a professional workflow and it does precisely what I need - but I also work with MicroPython almost daily and a lot of this plugin's userbase seems consist of students, people curious about MicroPython and people tinkering with embedded.

I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of MicroPython users are beginners, students, and hobbyists. Most professionals seem to scoff at the idea of running a Python interpreter on an embedded device, then go into some rant about how C/C++ is the way (I was guilty of this when I first learned about MicroPython 😄).

For a while now I've been worried that the plugin is too complicated and daunting to use for new users
...
I think that the solution might not be in simplifying and changing what the plugin does right now - but simply leaving run configurations, marking of folders etc. as an advanced workflow many won't need and adapt the Thonny style approach of working with the device directly, while avoiding its quirks and letting the users reach for the advanced features whenever they need as they need.

For beginners, I would agree that there's a lot to get started. Although IMO more of that is on the side of PyCharm than this plugin (eg. a lot of schools use Chromebooks, so PyCharm is a non-starter). The most complicated/daunting thing I see about this plugin is setting up a project and configuring the plugin to sync the files correctly. However if on-device file editing becomes possible and enabled by default (or very easily enabled), that would significantly reduce the barrier to entry!

And I totally agree with keeping the existing features and workflow as an option for users who want it, that's a big thing that sets this plugin apart from editors like Thonny.

[lukaskremla]

I'll start working on these features for the next major release - 0.6.0. Hopefully I'll get it done soon.