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Automations issue/ ZHA Network busy errors after migrating to Skyconnect dongle #86411
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Hey there @dmulcahey, @Adminiuga, @puddly, mind taking a look at this issue as it has been labeled with an integration ( Code owner commandsCode owners of
(message by CodeOwnersMention) zha documentation |
The error means:
Your automation is referencing ZHA group entities. Are you rapidly sending messages to ZHA groups with it? If so, that's the cause of the error message. How fast are you sending them? |
Yes I use zha groups. example I have 4 lamps in my living room, I have a zigbee bulb in each. I have them all set in a zha group. |
Having the same issue, also using ZHA groups to control 2-4 lights at once depending on the group. And its not getting called often, in the example below i call the ZHA groups once (turn of all lights), its maybe 10 groups with 2-4 lights in each group. but the automation is only calling each light group once. The Automation actually turns off All lights (light service) by Area, meaning the Area could potentially contain both the ZHA group and the induvidual Light in that ZHA group, i usally Hide all the induvidual light entities but they are still in the same Area that the group is.
Another set of errors that might be related, `Logger: homeassistant.components.zha.core.channels.base [0xF4E3:1:0x0300]: async_initialize: all attempts have failed: [DeliveryError('Failed to deliver message: <EmberStatus.DELIVERY_FAILED: 102>'), DeliveryError('Failed to deliver message: <EmberStatus.DELIVERY_FAILED: 102>'), DeliveryError('Failed to deliver message: <EmberStatus.DELIVERY_FAILED: 102>'), DeliveryError('Failed to deliver message: <EmberStatus.DELIVERY_FAILED: 102>')] Edit: actually forgot to include the logs.. |
I had the same issue and found this post. I am now using helpers to create groups instead of ZHA groups and it seems to work a lot better. |
Thanks for the reply @SneakieGargamel I personally might give that a try, have heard from multiple people that this might solve the problem. But still, if it's a generally known issue it should be solved as it does make sense to try and keep the ZHA id requests at a minimum and they obviously created ZHA groups for a reason. |
If you are consistently trying to control several groups at once you should create an additional group with the members of the other groups. multicast / broadcast traffic has limits on EZSP. See the broadcast section here: https://community.silabs.com/s/article/guidelines-for-large-dense-networks-with-emberznet-pro?language=en_US (most relevant statement is 8 in a 9s window) keep in mind this means all broadcasts including ones initiated by the stack itself (not just your group messages) |
@dmulcahey that is kind of interesting, so do I understand correctly that using the independent lights Id´s will only worsen the result as it will probable more than 8 requests (~50 in my case); shouldn't creating a Helper group containing the same Id's cause the same issue? |
Helper groups send individual device messages so they are no different than just addressing lights individually. You can prove this by enabling debug logs and watching the Zigpy / bellows logs. Zigpy groups are meant to cut down Zigbee traffic and they send a single message to the group Id. again this can be seen in the nwk traffic. What you should not do is attempt to address several Zigbee groups at the same time. This will flood the network. If that is something you do consistently you should create an additional zigbee group with the members of the individual groups and use that. That article / the section I mentioned is specifically talking about broadcast messaging not about messaging individual devices. |
@dmulcahey Ah I see, appreciate the explanation. Sorry to bother you but as bit of a nerd I guess I need to know how some things function. You mentioned messages to a Zigpy group is meant to reduce traffic, but dousent the controller need to relay that message to each of the device Id of that group causing the same amount of end-to-end traffic as sending it to each device to begin with? Or is the group Ids somehow stored on the end-device, surely they can't be? |
The coordinator sends a multicast message to the group id so only 1 message is sent by the coordinator. Enable debug logs and you can follow along |
Also, you can read the group cluster stuff in here if you want: https://zigbeealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/07-5123-06-zigbee-cluster-library-specification.pdf#page126 |
The 8 broadcast / 9 seconds is not one EZSP limit is one limit in the underlying 802.15.4 network and its shall being the same for all Zigbee 3 coordinator then forming on Zigbee 3 network. |
I have the same issues with ZHA groups, with SkyConnect. Deconz with the Conbee II works 100% better, regretting the migration of 100+ devices without testing. |
After trying virtually everything, I finally gave up on ZHA and migrated to Zigbee2MQTT (Z2M). Migrating is painful and Z2M is not perfect but it performs much better than ZHA in environments that include 40+ lighting devices such as mine. |
same issue with ZHA and SkyConnect... my group of 2 lights triggers this problem but neither a help group nor the individual lights will provoke it. |
@TheAlphaLaw @atr00 can you enable debug mode, run the actions that cause the issue and then attach the full logs please? |
@dmulcahey Note that, even then the action is successful, it is very slow (it takes 2 to 3 seconds for the lights to change their color... whereas individually or in a helper group it is almost instantaneous.) |
Thanks. This is really helpful. |
Happy to help! If you need more tests, just ask me. |
With debug mode on you should also get periodic counter dumps in the logs. Can you attach that too? Your log cuts off right when the command to read them is sent. |
I am not sure what they are... let me know if there is is what you need here: |
@atr00 I suspect you have an automation that needs debouncing, as you're sending a lot of group requests at once: # To turn on a single light, you'd need to send at most one `on()` command, and maybe one `move_to_color()`
2023-03-08 20:52:47.617 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:52:48.460 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:52:48.598 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=8912, color_y=2621, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:52:49.176 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:52:49.433 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=11272, color_y=48954, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:52:50.017 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:52:50.194 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=29097, color_y=33881, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:52:50.948 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=16318, color_y=6029, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:52:51.623 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
# `NETWORK_BUSY` immediately after sending the 10th request in 5 seconds
2023-03-08 20:52:52.559 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=25230, color_y=10157, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:52:52.574 DEBUG (MainThread) [bellows.ezsp.protocol] Application frame received sendMulticast: [<EmberStatus.NETWORK_BUSY: 161>, 118]
2023-03-08 20:52:53.023 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:52:53.034 DEBUG (MainThread) [bellows.ezsp.protocol] Application frame received sendMulticast: [<EmberStatus.NETWORK_BUSY: 161>, 125]
2023-03-08 20:52:55.077 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:52:53.088 DEBUG (MainThread) [bellows.ezsp.protocol] Application frame received sendMulticast: [<EmberStatus.NETWORK_BUSY: 161>, 126]
...
2023-03-08 20:53:04.598 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:53:05.604 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=11272, color_y=48954, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:53:06.809 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:53:07.841 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=8912, color_y=2621, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:53:07.884 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:53:08.664 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:53:08.836 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=16318, color_y=6029, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:53:09.631 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=25230, color_y=10157, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:53:09.968 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:53:10.904 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0300] Sending request: move_to_color(color_x=29097, color_y=33881, transition_time=0, options_mask=None, options_override=None)
2023-03-08 20:53:11.292 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:53:11.963 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on()
2023-03-08 20:53:13.916 DEBUG (MainThread) [zigpy.zcl] [Bedroom Desk Bulbs:None:0x0006] Sending request: on() Group requests are network-wide broadcasts that are bounced back and forth between all devices to make sure every possible group member has a chance to "hear" the message. If you send this many at once, the network will become too busy, as the error indicates. The limit on the number of group requests/broadcasts is hard-coded in the firmware and can't be raised. You may find it better to switch to a normal light group where each bulb is individually contacted concurrently, as this won't have the same limitation. |
The under network layer 802.15.4 have broadcast storm protection so all routers is only handling 9 broadcast in 8 seconds and if its more they ignoring them. |
@puddly I'm actually not even using any automation here. I'm going to the coordinator device where I can see my 2-bulb zigbee light group and I change the color from there. I'm not sure the issue is only related to automation. And when I don't purposely jam the network by sending consecutive fast requests, the response is very slow (it take about 3 seconds between the click and the actual color change). When I change individual lights or a helper group I am not facing any issue. When I use Z2M using a dongle with the same chip (ERF32), it works flawlessly, whether on individual lights or on a Z2M zigbee group. @MattWestb if you see my answer here, this is not happening with Z2M, it's specific with ZHA and SkyConnect. My group has 2 bulbs in it. There's slowness as well on a single broadcast command. |
So this is only when using ZHA groups, right? There were some changes to this with zigpy/bellows#402, but there's still a difference in regards to how fast ZHA light groups react with TI coordinators (zigpy-znp) vs with EZSP coordinators (bellows). |
I can see big improvements in calling zha zigbee groups. For example, if i would move the color picker over a group it would give me network_busy almost immediately. With this FW this behavior has improved drastically. Also, my HUE remotes would "freeze" when I did quadruple presses to trigger automations. That improved as well. |
@puddly I have noticed that some of my bulbs are not responding at random to group commands. The strange thing is some of the bulbs in a group will turn on but not all of them. Usually like 5 of 8 turn on, 3 stay off. It seems random which bulbs it is. Not sure if this is an issue with the new firmware or something else. |
The most I have in a group is 6 but no issues here, do the bulbs control if you do them individually? Double checked the zigbee group to make sure nothing dropped? Sometimes the group will drop bulbs if the bulb goes offline. |
Once a group command is sent out it's sort of at the mercy of the network. It'll be relayed and rebroadcast by most devices on your network, the coordinator is no longer involved beyond sending it out. I would make sure your network channel is free of noise. |
@puddly First of all this firmware is pretty awesome, thank you! I was running a ZBDongle-P but no matter what firmware I would use or what settings I would set I would get Watchdog failures frequently. Sometimes every 10 minutes and it would kill the stick and cause it to reinitialize. I elected to move to the ZBDongle-E just to give the other chipset a chance. When I migrated, I couldn't do anything due to Network Busy, so this firmware is the only think that even remotely allows my coordinator to start and work. The annoying thing which @evelant pointed out is that groups no longer behave like ZHA groups. With the ZBDongle-P a group command would broadcast and the group would all honor it at the same time, even if it took 60 seconds to propagate the network and HA would not mark the group on until it was. In the ZBDongle-E with this firmware a broadcast is sent, the switch goes to on then to off immediately and generally a few members of the group will turn on while the rest will later or not at all. Multiple off/on commands are required to get the full group of lights to turn on or off and HA reporting always lags. On the other hand the coordinator doesn't crash every 10 minutes so I think its a net win. My question is whether there are any settings I can do to make that more ZBDongle-P like? Subjectively it does feel like individual devices respond hella fast but ZHA groups are all over the place so I suspect there is something with spamming group broadcasts. I have 20 ZHA groups varying from varying from 2-9 end devices in each. They are essentially light zones where I then go apply adaptive lighting to. So my groups are getting spammed hard and heavy with broadcasts. Most of my routers are Inovelli Blues which did and may still have issues with Zigbee group broadcasts. Has anyone solved this issue with this firmware and setup? I am contemplating trying to do light groups but its a lot of work... Also happy to take some PCAP's if I can get some quick guidance as its been a hot minute since I did traffic analysis. |
@johnlento That's a very good description of the problem. Exactly what I'm seeing as well. @puddly I'm not sure how this group problem is happening but I am certain that it was introduced with the new build you provided. This never happened on the previous build. Groups always responded in unison or not at all due to network_busy error. Looking at the config changes you made I have no idea how they could have caused such behavior. Maybe a bug introduced upstream by silabs in the newer sdk? Any thoughts on other possible causes since it seems pretty certain that this was introduced with the new build? |
Another possible clue about the group issue @puddly -- it only happens when the command is coming from the coordinator. If I address a group via a binding on an inovelli blue switch all members always respond. Only group commands from the coordinator seem to trigger this partial group response behavior. |
If you have a second Silicon Labs coordinator (e.g. a HUSBZB-1 or another SkyConnect), you can use it as a packet capture tool. If you indeed are seeing a difference and can reliably replicate group commands working worse with the tweaked firmware, perform a packet capture on your ZigBee channel for about five minutes and include the group command in there, one with the old firmare and one with the new: pip install bellows
bellows --baudrate 115200 -d /dev/serial/by-id/your-other-zigbee-stick dump -c 20 -w capture.pcap Change |
@evelant However, Z-Stack firmware was modified a long time ago to lift the broadcast limit, like done with this EZSP firmware now. I'd set up a network sniffer to see how much broadcast traffic there is on your network. Using adaptive lightning or constantly changing colors of Zigbee group lights just doesn't work and will cause issues. One thing you can try is to position your coordinator more central (in regards to your group lights). |
@puddly Unfortunately I just gave my extra silabs coordinator to a friend. I still have a ti zstack dev board somewhere, maybe I can capture with that. @TheJulianJES I'm pretty certain this group issue arose with the new firmware build and not due to any configuration in my network since it's the only thing that changed. Before the update groups always responded in unison. After the update random group members don't respond. Nothing else changed -- same channel, same devices, same location, same extension cable, same coordinator hardware, same automations. I know it's puzzling since from my understanding of zigbee groups they should either all respond or none respond. I don't know how the new build could possibly be causing this but as far as I can tell all signs point to it being something with the new build and not with my setup/configuration. |
It's a combination of both. Increasing Your routers need to relay the broadcasts, but are seemingly "overwhelmed" by the increased amount of broadcasts that your coordinator can send now (or the tighter timing), because of the |
Makes sense, thanks. I'm not sure how I could be sending an excessive amount of broadcasts however. I don't have any sort of automation that continually issues commands or otherwise seems like it could flood the network. The most chatty automation is adaptive lighting which only updates every 90 seconds and only if the lights are already on. Most of the time they're off because they're turned on when radar presence sensors in a room detect occupancy. That's why this issue is particularly annoying -- people keep walking into rooms and having only 5 out of 10 bulbs turning on. I'll have to see if I can get a packet capture for more debug information. |
The packet capture should show us exactly what’s going on. Are the radar devices Tuya devices? I’m wondering if the entire network is flooded and it’s not just broadcast issues. I understand the issue wasn’t like this before the new firmware but maybe it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back so to say… that, and we have seen many instances of Tuya devices either completely spamming a network to death or introducing lots of routing issues. It could be possible that we are overloading some of the routers causing them to crash as well. |
As sad many times before paying with broadcast table in the coordinator is only making problems and Silabs have locking it i the stack so not possible changing in SS GUI. Also if controller devices is working OK (certificated ones and no tuya or Aqaaras) in the network then the network is OK with all broadcast. If sniffing look for address 0xffff or some other in the 0xfffX then its broadcasts to different types of network devices and only 9 in 8 seconds can being handles the rest is silent ignored. Also test with source routing and without and see how its looking. |
I don't have any tuya or other uncertified devices. Routers in my network are Inovelli Blue series switches, Sonoff SNZB-06P radars, Innr AE-270T bulbs, and a few ikea bulbs, all of which should be well behaved. |
I have also noticed a massive improvement with the new firmware. I have 81 zigbee devices overall, and one particular automation — closing all blinds at sunset — always failed. I had been struggling with it for months, and none of the typical troubleshooting helped. Some blinds would randomly not close, every single time, and now they all do. I've only noticed a hiccup of two for the past couple of weeks, so a major improvement. Interestingly, HA still reports the automation as having failed due to Interestingly per the discussion above, my blinds switches are tuya. I wonder if this is related to the flakiness I've experienced. Could it make sense to force them to act as end devices? I certainly have enough routers. Is that possible? |
I just ordered a skyconnect so I can use it as a sniffer. I'm wondering if NabuCasa/silabs-firmware-builder#57 might help with the group command issues? |
@puddly I switched my network a a zbdongle-p and zigbee2mqtt and the "not all lights in group turn on" is still happening. That rules out zha and ember controllers as sources of the problem. I must have something else in my hass install messing up the command or a device on my network causing problems. |
For what it's worth. I ran with a Conbee II on a Raspi 3B and around 230 devices. A few delays here and there, but overall worked. Still the network was not even barely functioning. Tried forcing a reorg by leaving HA off for a few hours, but that didn't improve anything. End result is I plugged in the old Conbee II, migrated without issues and everything is working. Thanks to the new Dongle Es no request delays anymore and everything feels a lot snappier (could also be the move to the CM4 instead of the Raspi 3B). Either way. Nothing in the network changed. Same spot, same network settings, same channel, same extenders, same devices. Only difference is moving to the Conbee II. It's a difference of night and day in a matter of a few minutes. Not sure logs help much. But I got a small one and a 650MB one, which I can't upload, but happy to provide, if helpful. |
I think my problem must be these Innr AE-270T bulbs. I guess they don't respond properly to group commands since it only seems to be happening to those bulbs and it happens with two entirely different coordinators and software stacks. @johnlento any chance you're also having the group issues with Innr bulbs? Or do you get it with different devices? |
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I swapped to a TubesZB EFR32 MGM24 PoE Coordinator 2024 which is the same chipset as my ZBDongle-E (Silicon Labs) and no matter what I do with ZHA or HA light groups none respond at the same time. The only time I ever got a group to ever respond all at once was when I was on the ZBDongle-P (Texas Instruments) It would flawlessly turn on the entire group at the same time.
I have all Sengled bulbs so its not unique to your devices. I can't tell you what firmwre or HA or ZHA build it was since I have been down the Silicon Labs rabbit hole for too long now. I am also on stock firmware for TubesZB now and the network is generally working. Sometimes I do get upwards of 20k messages in the queue and have to powercycle everything so that it can start responding again.
John Miles Lento Jr.
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Cc: johnlento ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [home-assistant/core] Automations issue/ ZHA Network busy errors after migrating to Skyconnect dongle (Issue #86411)
I think my problem must be these Innr AE-270T bulbs. I guess they don't respond properly to group commands since it only seems to be happening to those bulbs and it happens with two entirely different coordinators and software stacks. @johnlento<https://github.com/johnlento> any chance you're also having the group issues with Innr bulbs? Or do you get it with different devices?
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That's very unusual, you should not have 20k enqueued packets. Can you post a ZHA debug log? |
I will start collecting one, it seems to happen once a week. I am often time queued up past max concurrency and the network gets very laggy.
John Miles Lento Jr.
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Subject: Re: [home-assistant/core] Automations issue/ ZHA Network busy errors after migrating to Skyconnect dongle (Issue #86411)
Sometimes I do get upwards of 20k messages in the queue and have to powercycle everything so that it can start responding again.
That's very unusual, you should not have 20k enqueued packets.
Can you post a ZHA debug log?
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Open a separate issue once you do. Thanks! |
@johnlento I have a lot of sengled bulbs as well and have run into similar issues with them. A couple of things that might be helpful:
Probably not helpful to your situation but I have completely resolved all of my zigbee issues and have a fast, stable network. What it took was a firmware update for my Innr AE270-T bulbs. After a lot of back and forth with Innr they released a new firmware and after updating my ~40 Innr bulbs my network problems disappeared. This IMO shows that zigbee problems can be the fault of manufacturer firmware totally out of our control. I had similar issues to yours when I had primarily sengled bulbs. Now I only use a few sengled bulbs and mostly Innr and have no problems after their new firmware. I suspect your problems may stem from bad Sengled firmware -- maybe if you're persistent (and lucky) you could prod them into releasing an update to fix them? |
@puddly So I think my network is in that state again, max concurrent requests received and slowly climbing. Was at 524 queued and not at 3,000+. It occurred sometime after 10 sengled bulbs went offline for some reason. I can open a separate issue, but the debug log is like 2GB. Is there something I should trim out and submit? Looking for guidance on how to submit the issue. |
The problem
After migrating to Home Assistant Skyconnect usb dongle I've been running into network busy errors.
I currently have the dongle connected to a usb extension cable connected to R-Pie4 .
What version of Home Assistant Core has the issue?
Home Assistant 2023.1.6
What was the last working version of Home Assistant Core?
No response
What type of installation are you running?
Home Assistant OS
Integration causing the issue
Automation
Link to integration documentation on our website
https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/automation/
Diagnostics information
No response
Example YAML snippet
Anything in the logs that might be useful for us?
Additional information
No response
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