Add Amazon Gift Card as payment method

[aicbaicb]

Could Amazon gift cards be added as a payment method? The seller of BTC would just need to provide an email address (which doesn’t need to be tied to an Amazon account). The BTC buyer would buy an eGift card from Amazon for any amount which would be sent to the seller via email, and the seller can then apply the voucher to his Amazon account. (It wouldn’t need to be spend straight away, and can sit as a balance for up to 10 years).

As far I can can tell, it is not reversible (so no risk of chargeback), and since if the voucher is sent by email directly from Amazon, the buyer wouldn’t see the code, so no chance of fraud due to sending an expired voucher

This would work from any Amazon site (amazon.com, amazon.co.uk etc) so it would be necessary to have a country field so the seller gets the right voucher for the right country.

[alfsbs]

PM Evaluation

Introduction

 
Amazon Gift Cards is a payment method popular in the US and EU
 

Requirements verification

 
Web: https://www.amazon.com/gift-cards/
Chargeback risk: Very low
Privacy protection to other peer: High
Mandatory data for a transaction: Claim code
Duration: Instant
Region: Global
Fees: Low
Verifiable: No
Fraud risk: High
Conclusion: Not to implement for the moment, very high risk of scams

https://www.reddit.com/r/localbitcoins/comments/5rvthy/danieletucker_selling_amazon_gift_cards_fraud/

[aicbaicb]

Due to the fraud risk mentioned in the Reddit post when trading with claim codes, the fraud risk can be greatly reduced by not using claim codes, but instead have Amazon send the code to the BTC seller directly. So the BTC buyer logs into his account, chooses to send a gift card directly to the recipient, pays, and Amazon emails the recipient a link directly.

Amazon has its own fraud checks built in, so higher value gift cards cannot be sent from a new account or where a new credit card has been used.

Thus, I think the fraud risk is low.

[stale]

This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. Thank you for your contributions.

[ripcurlx]

Might be still useful to add in the future.

[stale]

This issue has been automatically closed because of inactivity. Feel free to reopen it if you think it is still relevant.

[pazza83]

Commenting as mentioned in #4757 as a potential new potential payment method for Bisq. Also relevant discussion here:

Bisq community forum post - Amazon Gift Card as payment method

Twitter post: Someone gave me amazon gift cards for Christmas. How do I convert it to Bitcoin?

Purse.io - Market place for Amazon gift cards exchange with BTC

Paxful - Amazon Gift Cards popular for users to Buy and Sell for BTC. Also of interest Paxful require a 0.1 BTC Bond as a security deposit for gift card traders.

Redeeem.com - P2P market place for giftcards including Amazon

CoinCola - Hong Kong based exchange allowing p2p gift card trading for BTC

MTurk - Amazon Mechanical Turk workers are often paid in Amazon Gift Cards. US users are the largest demographic of MTurk users (75%) and can choose to be paid by ACH. Indian users are the second largest demographic (16%) and often have to receive payment in Amazon Gift Cards.

Workers are required to select a payment disbursement schedule in Worker’s Amazon Account and specify the form of the payment disbursement therein (e.g., U.S. bank account, Amazon.com gift card, or other payment disbursement method that we may specify in the future.
Reference: https://www.mturk.com/participation-agreement

There are also multi website for people to buy Amazon Gift Cards with BTC eg BitRefill

[ghost]

Amazon gift cards as a payment method gets a thumbs up from me! 👍

My recommendation would be for trading limits to be small, perhaps 0.01 BTC equivalent. Only allow the direct in-Amazon method as mentioned above by @aicbaicb and the currency of the sender and receiver should be the same.

[pazza83]

@jmacxx thanks. Any idea how cases would be settled in mediation?

I can not see how payment can be verified.

You could prove that a code you have been sent was not spendable. But how you it be proved that it has not already been spent by either party?

[ghost]

@pazza83 by not using codes, instead "Only allow the direct in-Amazon method as mentioned above by @aicbaicb". Either the fiat payment arrives in your amazon account, or it doesn't. I think the mediators ask users to proove with some kind of verified screenshot tool/app/website to certify fiat transaction history - @huey735 can you remind us the name of that tool? Would it work with amazon accounts, or is it just for banks?

[ripcurlx]

@huey735 can you remind us the name of that tool? Would it work with amazon accounts, or is it just for banks?

I think you are referring to https://veruv.com/. It is independent of what is proven within the secure snapshot tool.

[pazza83]

Thanks @jmacxx I think the problem with only "Only allow the direct in-Amazon method as mentioned above by @aicbaicb". Is that it limits people that are paid in Amazon Gift Card Credit from sending Gift Cards to others as a means of payment.

It is not possible to transfer your Amazon gift card balance to another account, as stated on Amazon's Terms and Conditions. However, by contacting their Customer Service, they are able to un-redeem your gift card, and you should be able to redeem it to another account.
Reference Amazon website

I thought the potential from adding Amazon Gift Cards as a payment method would allow those paid in them to exchange them for BTC.

As an experiment I sent myself an Amazon Gift Card. Redeemed the card and now have the credit in my amazon account. However when I go to send a gift card to someone it says: "Your gift card balance can’t be applied to orders that contain Amazon.com or Visa or Mastercard gift cards, or collectable coins."

If I was instead able to use the code I received (looks like) "WDSL-Y7KUCY-B2BZ" I could send the payment onwards to a BTC seller. However this would introduce the double spend risk. In the case of a dispute how would the mediator know who redeemed the voucher code?

Looking at Purse.io for example you are unable to purchase Amazon vouchers on the platform: https://imgur.com/a/W7WTvlD

They will instead get the Buyer of BTC to purchase an item for the Seller of BTC. This makes it more achievable to verify the transaction took place.

In summary I am not sure what use payment direct by an In-Amazon method would have. I cannot think of a use case? Maybe if @aicbaicb is about they could also suggest one.

[chimp1984]

@huey735 can you remind us the name of that tool? Would it work with amazon accounts, or is it just for banks?

We use PageSigner for verifying a https page, so Amazon.com would work for that. So the in-Amazon method should be verifyable if the sender can provide a pageSigned doc to the mediator.

But if the in-Amazon method is not very useful we need to find a secure way how to prevent double spend with the gift card.
Is it visible anywhere who spent the code? The receiver could redeem immediately so we could reduce the risky period to that time. I never used it so its not easy to add much here, but wondering how other platforms are dealing with it as it seems quite popular.

[aicbaicb]

Thanks @jmacxx I think the problem with only "Only allow the direct in-Amazon method as mentioned above by @aicbaicb". Is that it limits people that are paid in Amazon Gift Card Credit from sending Gift Cards to others as a means of payment.

There is obviously a balance required between ease/convenience vs fraud risk. Whilst the direct in-Amazon method will not help those who are paid in Amazon Gift Card Credit, it may be that the risk outweighs the reward.

They will instead get the Buyer of BTC to purchase an item for the Seller of BTC. This makes it more achievable to verify the transaction took place.

This could work, but would presumably require the BTC buyer to provide his postal address to the seller, with the obvious privacy issues. Additionally, if the product is faulty and needs to be returned to Amazon, it would require the BTC seller to get involved. Thirdly, if the BTC buyer claims non-delivery of the item, it will be very hard for mediators to prove (not all deliveries are tracked, and tracking is not 100% accurate, especially with COVID, a lot of deliveries not requiring signature)

Alternatively, Amazon Gift Lists could be used, which I understand means the receipient keeps his address private (per https://www.alphr.com/how-to-find-the-amazon-wish-list-of-somebody-you-know/

Is the recipient address private on Amazon Wish Lists?
Yes, this information is absolutely private. When someone buys something for someone, they will only see the name and city information – nothing else. This is essential in protecting the users’ privacy on Amazon.

In summary I am not sure what use payment direct by an In-Amazon method would have. I cannot think of a use case? Maybe if @aicbaicb is about they could also suggest one.

Use case is clear. BTC buyer can effectively buy BTC with a credit card with no mark-up, and no record on credit card/bank statement that BTC has been purchased.

Another option would be provision of a scan/image of a physical gift card, which can be purchased with cash (eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201936830). BTC buyer would upload an photo/scan of a physical card (possibly also with a receipt showing purchase) which would show the redeem code. Very little fraud risk, as BTC seller would only confirm once fiat credited to his account.

[pazza83]

@aicbaicb Thanks for all the info that is great.

The gift list idea sounds good but complex and pretty far outside the current trade parameters. I think this could be revisited after a review of how Amazon Gift Vouchers as a payment method are doing.

The in-app method sounds pretty straight forward, payment can be verified easily, and their is no chargeback risk.

With regards the use case. I expect a BTC seller would want to exchange BTC for amazon credit for a significant mark-up. I am sure a fair price for the mark-up will be decided by the market.

[pazza83]

Hi @aicbaicb please see below my proposal for adding Amazon eGift Cards. It would be great to get your feedback.

Payment Method Reference
Amazon eGift Cards

Currency:
Amazon Gift Cards are available in the following currencies:

• AUS
• CAD
• EUR
• GBP
• INR
• JPY
• SAR
• SEK
• SGD
• TRY
• USD

Amazon users cannot purchase eGift Cards in currencies different than that of their main account. This is not a multicurrency payment method.

Limits
Immediate buy / sell limit of 0.25 BTC as per recent update bisq-network/proposals#264 (comment)

NB: There is a maximum limit of $2,000.00 USD for this payment method. I assume buyer could send more than one payment totaling a larger amount if required. This is currently how the US Postal Money Order payment method works.

Signing required
No signing is required as eGift Cards are not subject to chargeback.

GUI

Fields required:

Currency (see above)
Email linked to Amazon account
Phone number linked to Amazon account (optional if SMS delivery requested)

Bisq Trade ID
Should be provided by BTC buyer in the 'message' field

[chimp1984]

Is that the in-Amazon version, which can be verifies by the users Amazon account in case of a dispute, right?

We must not allow % based prices here as the fiat amount need to match the giftcard.

[chimp1984]

@ripcurlx Can you re-open the issue?

[pazza83]

We must not allow % based prices here as the fiat amount need to match the giftcard.

You can choose a custom fiat amount. So it is all good.

[pazza83]

Is that the in-Amazon version, which can be verifies by the users Amazon account in case of a dispute, right?

Yes, this is the verifiable, non chargeback-able option

[chimp1984]

So if seller says he did not receive it mediator requests PageSigned doc of buyers Amazon account which shows that he sent the gift card, right? The seller can as well show that he has not received it in his account, I assume.

[pazza83]

@chimp1984

So if seller says he did not receive it mediator requests PageSigned doc of buyers Amazon account which shows that he sent the gift card, right?

Yes,

If the seller of BTC does not receive the Egift Card. They can request the buyer to resend (might have been caught in spam filters etc).

If the seller of BTC still has not received anything and trade times out (I would suggest a 24 hour payment window) it would go to mediation.

Mediator can request a PageSigner of buyers Amazon account. This would show the date, purchase, amount, email address sent to etc.

The seller can as well show that he has not received it in his account, I assume.

No, the seller can not show they did not receive it. Payment is sent as a email Gift Card. It does not go to the seller's Amazon account. The seller would just receive an email with a code on from Amazon with whatever name the buyer chose to provide, their message (Bisq trade ID) and the amount).

If buyer can prove payment the case is awarded in their favour. If buyer cannot prove payment case is awarded in favour of seller.

This voucher code is sent directly by Amazon if the buyer proves sending via pagesigner and the seller says "I received the email but the code did not work" either they are lying, their email account has been compromised, or it is an Amazon problem (unlikely but if so seller can resolve with Amazon).

[pazza83]

Update to comment #1866 (comment) with respect to Amazon eGift Cards the in Amazon payment method.

Amazon eGift Cards are a payment method that can be used in multiple Countries; Anywhere in the EU, Australia, Canada, India, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Turkey, United States, United Kingdom.

Chargeback risk: None
Privacy protection to other peer: High only need to know what email address you want it sent to.
Duration: As fast as an email
Region: Countries as above (Users can only trade within the country of their respective Amazon account eg a EU user can not send GBP)
Fees: No fees
Verifiable: High
Fraud risk: Low
Number of Worldwide Amazon users: 300 million.
Conclusion: Implement Amazon eGift Cards.

[chimp1984]

Tried it out myself.
Possible amounts 1 USD- 2000 USD.
If trying to redeem from diff. currency account it shows an error msg that its invalid but not the reason, so that might confuse users if they make a mistake here. So we need to be very clear that they can only send between same currencies.

@pazza83 I assume the currency not the country is relevant, right? So all EU counties can trade in between them.

[chimp1984]

I will impl. the payment method...

[pazza83]

Yes when setting up the Amazon payment method they should choose the currency of their Amazon account. The options are:

AUS
CAD
EUR
GBP
INR
JPY
SAR
SEK
SGD
TRY
USD

It would be good if it was set up like national bank transfer so users could not mistakenly make or take a trade in currency different from their account.

[chimp1984]

[aicbaicb]

Amazon users cannot purchase eGift Cards in currencies different than that of their main account. This is not a multicurrency payment method.

I've tested this, and I think you can. I have an Amazon.co.uk account, and I've in the past also used Amazon.com. I was able to log in with my regular details to amazon.ca, and purchase a gift card in CAD. Ditto in amazon.es, in EUR.

I understand that when opening an Amazon account in one country, the details carry across to every other store.

[chimp1984]

@aicbaicb I tested it with buying a card with USD and try to rdeem it with a European account and it failed. Have you tried to redeem from an account with another currency? I assume its only restricting the be the same currency not the country.

[aicbaicb]

@chimp1984 Sorry I was not clear. If you buy a card with USD, you cannot redeem it with a European account. However, if you have a USD account, you can buy a card from a EUR site, which can be redeemed on a European account.

For example, if I have an account with amazon.com, but a BTC seller is selling for GBP, I can go to amazon.co.uk, buy a giftcard in GBP, and send that to the buyer.

I assume its only restricting the be the same currency not the country.

I think you are right, but haven't tested it

[pazza83]

Hi @aicbaicb that it great. I did not know your Amazon account profile could be used to log into all the different Amazon accounts.

I have just been able to log into a SAE and Australian one with the same account details.

Looks like a good option. It would allow someone to swap between markets and increase liquidity 👍

[pazza83]

This has now been implemented.

Please see guide on wiki:

https://bisq.wiki/Amazon_eGift_card