[TF2] fix: exploit allowing casual players to farm points via repeated sandman stuns

[bijlpieter]

Sandman ball stuns grant bonus points. With enough healing, 2 scout players on opposing teams can exploit this fact by repeatedly stunning each other. This is further helped by the fact that the ball instantly comes available when being hit by another scout's sandman.

This has been prevalent for years in MannPower mode, since its powerups provide the necessary healing power. In the past there have been players using bots to kick everyone from a server, only to be able to do this exploit. So this fix, or one like it, would be very welcome to the community!!

Completely removing bonus points from sandman stuns seems excessive, and might hurt other game modes where this exploit is not an issue. Hence, I think deterring exploiters by limiting the rate at which bonus points may be received from the sandman is enough. I figure this won't have any impact elsewhere.

Looking forward to your feedback!

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This commit applies a rate limit to the number of bonus points a player can receive from sandman stuns.

[bijlpieter]

For reference, here is a demonstration of the exploit:

mannpower-sandman-exploit.mp4

[mlemlody]

it actually hurts also people who doesnt farm xp but just play sandman, bleh

[bijlpieter]

This patch limits bonus points being applied to just once per 10 seconds. Noone playing legitimately would feasibly run into this limit.

[ciamciam]

mlemlody, after u use ball it takes 10 secs for recharge so it doesnt hurt anyone, also since when bot hoster responsible for engineer bots on mannpower cares about players? Stop crying Ur Just mad u wont be able to farm yourself

[teufortressIndustries]

since when bot hoster responsible for engineer bots on mannpower cares about players?

Melody having a change of heart, perhaps?
Didn't he leave bot hosting last year anyway?

[ciamciam]

Melody having a change of heart, perhaps? Didn't he leave bot hosting last year anyway?

No? He hosted bots less than 2 weeks ago on mannpower, and is writing new cathook for botting but with engineers instead of snipers

[teufortressIndustries]

No? He hosted bots less than 2 weeks ago on mannpower, and is writing new cathook for botting but with engineers instead of snipers

What a shame, waste of potential.

[Gopnik1255]

No? He hosted bots less than 2 weeks ago on mannpower, and is writing new cathook for botting but with engineers instead of snipers

What a shame, waste of potential.

he can host good servers tho, unlike some tf2 servers

[ciamciam]

he can host good servers tho, unlike some tf2 servers

Good servers huh? Full of engineers with aimbot buildings nests. Sounds Like a great server to Play on

[semipopular]

can we delete this, how am i supposed to get my level 150 tier 8 92387934th account
also that ur legit butthurt over an xp glitch, please consider deleting this

[semipopular]

can we delete this, how am i supposed to get my level 150 tier 8 92387934th account also that ur legit butthurt over an xp glitch, please consider deleting this

Cry us a river, its never gonna get deleted :)

yo sybau my boy, we ALL agree to delete this spam post, this isnt even an exploit its a part of the game, said by robin walker
now shut up, also if it existed for years and there's alot of content with it, then why valve never fixed it? seemingly it's a harmless feature so no reason to "fix" it

[ciamciam]

Am Just gonna add info that 90% of ppl who dont want it to be fixed are cheaters or bot hosters

[seler1500]

can we delete this, how am i supposed to get my level 150 tier 8 92387934th account
also that ur legit butthurt over an xp glitch, please consider deleting this

yo sybau my boy, we ALL agree to delete this spam post, this isnt even an exploit its a part of the game, said by robin walker now shut up, also if it existed for years and there's alot of content with it, then why valve never fixed it? seemingly it's a harmless feature so no reason to "fix" it

severe case of butthurt

[teufortressIndustries]

yo sybau my boy, we ALL agree to delete this spam post, this isnt even an exploit its a part of the game, said by robin walker now shut up, also if it existed for years and there's alot of content with it, then why valve never fixed it? seemingly it's a harmless feature so no reason to "fix" it

While having a high level doesn't change much, medals provide a vague indication of the skills of the players you are matched with. A person dominating the server with tier 4 and level 58 is more trustworthy than a level 1 tier 1. XP exploits defeat the purpose of medals, as they are used by cheaters to seem legitimate.

[IgnisMas]

Mannpower, despite the chaotic nature, is a carefully balanced mode where the exclusive Powerups play a major role. "Farming" not only brings players who do not want to participate, making them useless team members, but it also creates an imbalance since it's required for these players to hoard some Powerups to themselves, outside of their intended use in combat.
When confronted, by killing, asking to stop or calling a vote for exploiting, these players often retaliate with toxicity, which is a big problem considering it's fair to say that 90% of them are cheaters and bot hosters.
A majority of them want to gain casual exp in order to get the highest level badge in order to appear less suspicious in casual matches to not get kicked.

[IgnisMas]

it actually hurts also people who doesnt farm xp but just play sandman, bleh

The Sandman is already overshadowed by other melees in all of TF2.
This is especially the case in Mannpower since it's upside gets even more redundant due to the Grappling Hooks, and other choices which are also considered overshadowed like the Fan o' War gets much more use inside the mode.
A change that makes it so you get less points (in extremely rare cases, maybe in combo with Haste?) with this melee, in exchange for getting rid of big issue like an exploit, I believe it is a trade-off with no downsides that everyone in this community is willing to take.
If this patch gets pushed into the game, I'll make sure to follow the Sandman prices on bptf, and will message you if a significant drop happens due to this change.

[IgnisMas]

can we delete this, how am i supposed to get my level 150 tier 8 92387934th account also that ur legit butthurt over an xp glitch, please consider deleting this

Cry us a river, its never gonna get deleted :)

yo sybau my boy, we ALL agree to delete this spam post, this isnt even an exploit its a part of the game, said by robin walker
now shut up, also if it existed for years and there's alot of content with it, then why valve never fixed it? seemingly it's a harmless feature so no reason to "fix" it

I don't understand? Other exploits exactly like this one have been fixed in the past.
How is the exploit ever intended for the game? If it wasn't fixed for years, how does that make it NOT a problem?
The fact "fixing", is the word everyone is throwing around, it would actually be evident that EVERYONE agrees it is an issue/bug in the game.
It is not harmless, please read my comment and feel free to message me if you're curious about the damage it has caused to this community.

[semipopular]

i aint reading allat, dont fix ts

[IgnisMas]

i aint reading allat, dont fix ts

If you don't care, nor are willing to share, it's best you just leave the thread. Thanks you.

[kisak-valve]

Hello folks, please try to keep comments on this issue tracker friendly and constructive. If this bickering continues, I'll be forced to step in and take action.

[bijlpieter]

@kisak-valve Thank you. Is there any outlined process to have this reviewed and/or independently tested to potentially have this merged? Or do we simply wait it out?

[ciamciam]

i think all the attention that was given to this post speaks for itself how big of a problem it is.

[Gavitro]

This patch limits bonus points being applied to just once per 10 seconds. Noone playing legitimately would feasibly run into this limit.

mlemlody, after u use ball it takes 10 secs for recharge so it doesnt hurt anyone, also since when bot hoster responsible for engineer bots on mannpower cares about players? Stop crying Ur Just mad u wont be able to farm yourself

You can bypass the Sandman's cooldown by running to your own ball and picking it up. Therefore you can do multiple stuns under 10 seconds, but this fix would prevent legitimate bonus points in that scenario.

[IgnisMas]

You can bypass the Sandman's cooldown by running to your own ball and picking it up. Therefore you can do multiple stuns under 10 seconds, but this fix would prevent legitimate bonus points in that scenario.

"I believe it is a trade-off with no downsides that everyone in this community is willing to take."

Most often than not, that won't be the case, if you're worried for points, the 10s cooldown won't affect moonshots for example. The window for it is really short, and at a small distance, you already don't get rewarded with points for hitting an opponent. It is a consequence, but one that most definitely go unnoticed by nearly all of the community