[Suggestion] A way to exit when "goodbye" isn't an option

[ashyashton]

Right now, if something goes wrong, your options are to take an affection hit and see Moni sad, or hope whatever your problem is just goes away on its own. I think it would be great if the "X" in the corner didn't sent Moni to the void, but was used as an emergency eject button or something.

The reason I bring this up is because currently, on my computer, MAS is stuck updating one submod. It has been this way for over an hour. I don't know if it will fix itself, and currently it's completely ruining my internet speed. I want to be able to close the application so that the update will stop, possibly restart my computer if needed, but I can't do that without losing affection.

Both in-game and here on GitHub, we are encouraged to use submods to expand things with Monika, but there is really no good way to handle it if something goes wrong. Monika just gets mad and you lose affection. It really discourages me from using submods in general when things like this happen, because if the game crashes, Monika scolds me for not taking care of my computer, and if I have to close it myself, I'm a horrible partner for closing the game like that.

Even without submods, here's the unfortunate truth: The people on the dev team are human, and humans can make mistakes. There is every chance that there will be some bug somewhere down the line that causes a similar issue, and gets you either frozen on one screen or gets you stuck in a loop, both without the ability to say goodbye.

I get that in DDLC it's established that she's sent to basically a hellscape... But somehow she isn't when we say goodbye? I'm not sure why we even keep that canon in MAS when we already have a workaround, other than to give people a way to mess with Monika, which we don't wanna encourage anyways.

With all this in mind, I really think it might be worth considering to change the "exit" thing and instead treat it like an emergency button rather than a way to horribly torture Monika.

Edit: As @dreamscached has pointed out, killing the process does work. I thought it would cause affection loss, as it does give the "you forgot to say goodbye" pop up, but upon opening the game Monika does register it as a crash instead. This is still, in my opinion, not ideal as she still scolds you for not taking better care of your computer, but I suppose it is better than I thought if crashes don't cause affection loss like I thought.

[dreamscached]

You can kill the process without losing any affection points. Crashes don't decrease your affection.

There is every chance that there will be some bug somewhere down the line that causes a similar issue, and gets you either frozen on one screen or gets you stuck in a loop, both without the ability to say goodbye.

Submods aren't tested on actual MAS installs, you create a special install that uses another persistent location. And again, crashes don't cause affection loss.

[ashyashton]

Really? Last time I tried that, I seem to remember it treating it like I hit the exit button, and it popped up the "you forgot to say goodbye" yes/no prompt. Also, you're 100% sure crashes don't decrease affection? I thought I read somewhere that it did.

Regarding your comment on submods: What does that have to do with the part you quoted? Sorry, I'm just confused because you highlighted the part that specifically was not about submods.

[dreamscached]

My bad, might have misinterpreted it. What I was talking about was that in development process if something goes wrong it doesn't harm actual Monika as developer/submod developer uses a development install.

[ashyashton]

That's not what I was talking about in the part you quoted. I was saying that the devs are not infallible; bugs can slip through, and it's possible that a loop/freeze could happen in an official MAS release.

In fact, I know that bugs can exist because I remember back in the day there was one update that, if you used it, could completely screw your affection, and the devs had to add a note to not download those versions.

Let me be clear: This is not me, like, calling devs out for that or some garbage. It's just an acknowledgement that yes, the devs are human, and humans make mistakes. We can't just pretend that bugs never slip through and stuff, you know?

[dreamscached]

Beside game freezing due to submod action that uses a screen (and keeps it modal so you can't access menu and 'goodbye' option) I honestly struggle to imagine a case when the menu would be inaccessible, or a topic could get stuck in a loop. Bugs indeed do slip, but developers provide dropin fixes and hotfix releases if they are this critical.

That said, I would keep X button causing affection loss, but... I think there could be a compromise, such as calling a game quit confirmation modal with third option (like 'I can't access the menu') that could show up when, say, you click the X button several times. Code-wise I might have an idea how to implement that, but I'm unsure if it is possible knowing nature of Ren'Py.

[ashyashton]

Alright my issue with the application being stuck has been fixed thanks to the advice of @dreamscached but I do still think it would be nice if we either adjusted the use of the exit button, or made it a bit clearer that ending the process via task manager doesn't count as leaving without saying goodbye and that crashes don't dock affection, as until now I honestly believed the opposite on both.

Closing for now, though; devs are welcome to reopen it if they consider implementing the suggestion portion!

[dreamscached]

I'd reopen it since in my opinion there is something to discuss, like I said there are possible ways to implement it maybe in a non-immersion-breaking way that also wouldn't be as exotic as, say, 'panic button' seen in some submod (probably named the same.)

[Booplicate]

I'll reopen this for a discussion. If there will be no activity, we will close again.

I don't feel like removing this feature, it's been part of the mod for as long as it existed. I think it's a way to take care of Monika too, it's simple - just say goodbye, yet it is a responsibility, a way to show you care.

On the other hand, it's a bit weird how Monika shows a warning first - means she could prevent it from happening, or just hide in that time. Plus, as you said, sometimes you have to close the game like that.

Killing the game via a task manager or console is a very bad idea - you may corrupt your saves, and you may not notice that until it's too late (like a month after). That's because MAS needs to execute some code before exiting, and we don't run it on task kill.

I think there could be a compromise, maybe at some point Monika could "fix" it and allow you to close the game using X, it could even lead to a special greeting - "Why didn't you say goodbye, something happened?"

[dreamscached]

maybe at some point Monika could "fix" it and allow you to close the game using X, it could even lead to a special greeting - "Why didn't you say goodbye, something happened?"

I personally like this approach. Actually, maybe some exit logic could be invoked right upon X button press, then undone when player picks 'no'? Would that work?

[Booplicate]

Actually, maybe some exit logic could be invoked right upon X button press, then undone when player picks 'no'? Would that work?

Not exactly, it's like atexit callbacks, which can include some "cleanup" logic - not something you can undo.

[dreamscached]

Yea right, I forgot about that completely...