copperhead@irc.oftc.net.log

@dnj
mricon: it'll be an easy transition 
mricon: mark my words - that will be the last option we move with 
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YegorTimoshenko[m]
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17239259 
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MilkManzJourDaddy
yegortimoshenko: Are you a Matrix user? 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
yes 
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MilkManzJourDaddy
yegortimoshenko: You are [Double Bridging](https://github.com/MilkManzJourDaddy/matrix-org/wiki/Glossary-of-Terms-in-Matrix#double-bridging).  You need to leave the [Portal Room](https://github.com/MilkManzJourDaddy/matrix-org/wiki/Glossary-of-Terms-in-Matrix#portal-room) and join [#CopperheadOS:matrix.org](https://matrix.to/#/#CopperheadOS:matrix.org). 
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YegorTimoshenko[m]
MilkManzJourDaddy [99-Problems/A📌🚁/Falayalaralfali]: thank you! 
Moral_
topic 
MilkManzJourDaddy
You're welcome./N.p.  But you shoud still leave the Portal Room as Double Bridging is problematic. 
resoluti0n
Can someone resume the situation please 
? 
Who is James Donaldson? and what he was doing in the company? 
what's this disagreement all about? 
resoluti0n
all the posts, links I've found on this are either deleted or not very cleared. 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
resoluti0n: here's what i managed to recover: https://gitlab.com/yegortimoshenko/copperhead-takeover/ 
i'm quite sure there's more 
also, live chat with james donaldson on hacker news 
JollyRoger[m]
Oh man. 
shiver
i don't think a hacker news article with a clickbait title was necessary 
you don't know what you're talking about and you shouldn't make assumptions / point fingers without knowing the full scope of the situation 
dnj
shiver: agreed 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: I'm right here bud 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: your position is only damaging the company and the people who care about Copperhead 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: btw 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you happy with that? 
JollyRoger[m]
What the hell. 
dnj
resoluti0n: I'm right here 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
dnj: i really can't comprehend how you can say that. you let a fucking takeover go under your nose, with every single bit of data about it being removed from the internet 
no, i am not happy with that, and i don't think this is what i'm doing 
i'm literally reposting what you wrote 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: do you know what a takeover is 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: I didn't write that - a lawyer did 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you're very inexperienced with business or corporate structure 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
you mean, lawyer had access to @CopperheadOS twitter? 
this is the only thing that i reposted 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you also have, at most, 50% insight in to 
resoluti0n
dnj: Ok so from what I understand and  what I have read so far, you are the CEO and you want the lead developpers to leave Copperhead? 
dnj
resoluti0n: lol? 
idk how people jump to these assumptions 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
you called for ceo to resign, now i call for ceo to resign. now you call me words and say what i do is damaging 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: show me where it says in the letter for the CEO to resign 
(I'm the CEO) 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
resoluti0n: you're speaking to daniel micay 
shiver
-_- 
dnj is James 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
oh 
i took you for the wrong person 
dnj
<-- I'm James 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
i thought you're daniel 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: no 
resoluti0n
ah ok sorry 
dnj
daniel is strcat 
Moral_
jesus christ 
shiver
if you care about copperheados i recommend removing your post YegorTimoshenko[m] 
that isn't going to help 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
shiver: i don't think so. copperheados for the most part is daniel's work 
mricon
not to take any sides, but a company is more than just code. 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
dnj: to you, i should reiterate that selling stuff is secondary 
dnj
mricon: thank you 
mricon: and truth 
mricon
selling stuff is what pays developers 
dnj
^ 
and getting everyone paid and happy was and still is my #1 priority 
mricon
if you can't sell stuff, your developers go do something else 
people hacking is just as hard as code hacking 
dnj
right 
shiver: <3 
it's truth 
mricon
I've done both and I have deep respect for people who do either of those well. 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: your framing of this as a take over is semantically incorrect and damaging 
shiver
Daniel has done a fantastic job and the technical success of CopperheadOS is owed to him. but you don't know what you're talking about YegorTimoshenko[m] 
dnj
^ 
JollyRoger[m]
Yeah. Let's not just pour gas on the fire. 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
well, i profoundly disagree with both of you 
shiver
and fwiw I'm not affiliated with copperhead, I'm just someone who would like to see it continue 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: do you use CopperheadOS? 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: are you a customer of ours? 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
this is a corporate takeover, what you're doing is placing managers above authors 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: have you contributed any donations or code to CopperheadOS? 
shiver
did you even read the letter 
MilkManzJourDaddy
I wish I had time to figure out the "tl;dr" of all this.  But it's tough if statements need to be couched in legal terms.  Suffice it to say, from what I've skim-read in here, expect FUD. 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: so no 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
this capitalist mindset kills me. do you only think in terms of money that i've directly sent your way? 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you're a troll, that's what you are 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
i know daniel. 
MilkManzJourDaddy
Yegor Timoshenko: I'm assuming English is a secondary language for you.  No? 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: good for you 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: are you at any all related or have donated or helped Copperhead or CopperheadOS? 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you haven't - you're a troll, and you're starting a shitstorm of nonsense for no reason but to get your name made 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: let me guess - you've never ran or owned or operated a company? 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
MilkManzJourDaddy [99-Problems/A📌🚁/Falayalaralfali]: that much can be inferred from my full name. is that relevant? 
blacklight[m]
Dnj probbally means that if you didnt contribute in either work or funding, then you have no right to critize them 
MilkManzJourDaddy
Yegor Timoshenko: Okay, you need to be a good netizen in here. 
dnj
blacklight[m]: kinda 
blacklight[m]: everyone has a right to their opinion 
blacklight[m]: I just wished we could debate here rather than post clickbait on HN 
MilkManzJourDaddy
And developers need to eat. 
blacklight[m]
I know 
But i get your annoyence 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
you didn't contribute to any of the technical work. you're building business around something that is built on community projects 
shiver
i know daniel too YegorTimoshenko[m], he's without a doubt one of the best engineers I've ever spoken to 
mricon
YegorTimoshenko[m]: I believe fairly respected people have pointed out to you that, unless you're ready to start a Patreon account and help fund a developer, successful technical companies require both technical skills ans business skills 
blacklight[m]
Heck, the reason i became a contributer to the qubes os project is that i can help the project, and because i have a leading role in a part of the developement of it because of that, gives me the right to steer some stuff around in the project 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
i'm going to stop this discussion because it will never go anywhere. but this thing that you're trying to pull off won't succeed, i very much hope so 
blacklight[m]
you cannot expect a project to do that for you if you havent done anything to help out, wether it being work or funding 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you're stopping because you're feeling heat from the dispute 
MilkManzJourDaddy
Yegor Timoshenko: Okay, dnj has the IRC side, but I lead tje Matrix side, and I do not allow trolling.  Did you come here for answers, or just to attack? 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: how do you think I FEEL from all of this? 
blacklight[m]
> you didn't contribute to any of the technical work. you're building business around something that is built on community projects 
There is more to a company then just  writing stuff 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: have you taken a second to think about how someone, who has worked just as hard and as long as Daniel, feels having anonymous trolls attack me 
it sucks 
blacklight[m]
People need to be paid 
dnj
that's what 
^ 
OSS has a huge issue with keeping people paid and making sure projects succeed 
that's where people like me come in 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
MilkManzJourDaddy [99-Problems/A📌🚁/Falayalaralfali]: you should be very opinionated in order to qualify what i say as trolling 
dnj
fwiw YegorTimoshenko[m] hasn't said a damn thing in here or has helped Copperhead or CopperheadOS at all until this dispute started 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
i've come here to link to HN discussion 
i thought daniel might be here 
blacklight[m]
Ive gotta side with milkman and dnj 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: he's not 
mricon
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you're the one who started the HN thread, and you've probably mortally wounded COS 
blacklight[m]
Your pulling stuff out of proportion for no apparent reason 
mricon
now anyone who's looking for a secure android solution will find that shitpost and decide to look elsewhere 
JollyRoger[m]
Yeah. Stop it! 
MilkManzJourDaddy
Yegor Timoshenko: I don't see you objectively seeking answers, but coming in with a prejudiced opinion. 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
MilkManzJourDaddy [99-Problems/A📌🚁/Falayalaralfali]: you could say the same about the other side 
blacklight[m]
Maybe we could contact HN and have it removed under the claim of false information 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
daniel would have likely had a different opinion than the consensus here. it's a copperhead channel, not just ceo's channel, or has it been taken over already? 
blacklight[m]
Nope 
Just a copperhead user 
mricon
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you're shocked that people don't see it in black and white terms? 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: Daniel has ever right to talk internally to the company regarding our dispute, which is all we ever wanted 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: airing dirty laundry online is the last thing anyone needs 
mricon
company disputes happen all the time. If you've been around *any* free software projects, you'd know that it's the hardest part about running a successful project 
dnj
and as mricon said 
blacklight[m]
And who are you to talk for daniel, claiming what his opinion would be 
dnj
I've had to deal with damage control for the last 48 hours 
explaining to clients that we're good, that Copperhead still exists, that CopperheadOS isn't going anywhere, that Daniel can be worked with 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
blacklight: i didn't say his opinion would match mine, actually we very much fundamentally disagree. i didn't imply that 
anyway, matrix bridge moderator will kick me off any second if i continue 
blacklight[m]
It sounded like it 
mricon
YegorTimoshenko[m]: everyone here wants CopperheadOS to survive and continue 
blacklight[m]
> anyway, matrix bridge moderator will kick me off any second if i continue 
Wise decision 
mricon
YegorTimoshenko[m]: we have our opinions, but we're mature enough to know that shitposting on the internet is not the way to rescue a project 
MilkManzJourDaddy
Yegor Timoshenko: If you could be objective and not subjective…  Might you be able? 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: please delete that HN article 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you understand it will only further agitate the situation 
I'm gonna go keep running the day-to-day and try to keep a clear head 
I shouldn't have got involved ;p 
now I feel sick 
x: 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
i won't delete the article, and i've also archived comments that you've deleted which i'm promptly going to mirror elsewhere 
resoluti0n
Might I suggest posting a official statement about all this. This would prevent speculations and FUDs to spread further. 
shiver
might be best to do that dnj 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
if you are pro censorship and think taking down information can do anyone good in the world, you're very wrong. 
shiver
the hacker news article is grossly unfair, and i'm not on either side 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: nah, I was advised by multiple professionals that getting involved is only bad for the company and this dispute 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: the company means the world to me, it's my everything 
anything to hurt it hurts me and Daniel 
shiver
^ 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: every thing you are uploading and mirroring will be hurting us and CopperheadOS - think about that 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
please don't hold daniel hostage 
i'm criticizing things you've done to him 
shiver
holy shit bro 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
not him 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you have no idea what's happened between us 
shiver
did you read the letters 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: legit NO idea 
mricon
YegorTimoshenko[m]: yeah, if you're out on the quest to right wrongs, then you're going to burn down the whole village in the process 
dnj
^ 
* dnj is trying to save the damned village 
dnj
;p 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
well, first off i should say you're over-dramatizing impact i can make in this situation. 
MilkManzJourDaddy
Yegor Timoshenko: What are your ties with Purism? 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: *I* am 
? 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: all I want is for this to go away 
mricon
YegorTimoshenko[m]: in the world of secure devices, negative publicity about internal company matters is extremely damaging 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
i like their hardware. are you going to call me a shill now? 
blacklight[m]
> not him 
You do realize that by hurting the compsny, you hurt him indirectly to 
MilkManzJourDaddy
JohnMH 
dnj
<YegorTimoshenko[m]> i like their hardware. are you going to call me a shill now? 
welp there you go 
YegorTimoshenko[m]: you're acting in the interests of a competitor of ours 
THAT makes total sense 
blacklight[m]
I can confirm this 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
hahaha 
i doubt they perceive you as competitors, though 
blacklight[m]
Its alot of mouth to mouth marketing in a small niche market 
Reputations can be deadly 
dnj
YegorTimoshenko[m]: why don't you just accept your 3 year old hardware and be happy? ;p 
blacklight[m]
Tbh, i wouldnt take purism seriously tho 
dnj
leave us alone 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
i just like free hardware, and i like copperheados because it's a well-maintained android disto with none of the google's stuff. don't be paranoid 
and free software 
blacklight[m]
They have misleading marketing 
take their coreboot implemtations, tldr keeping all the hardware blobs inside, and only using coreboot as a wrapper 
Giving you exactly zero security benifit 
At this point their laptops are just dells where me cleaner has run upon 
YegorTimoshenko[m]
dnj: hey, sure. people kept mentioning me and i couldn't resist replying 
mricon
yeah, I have a Librem 13... it's okay, but it's certainly not a masterpiece 
I mean, i appreciate not having to run me_cleaner on my own 
but they are not well-built, and it takes ages for them to fulfill orders 
blacklight[m]
You can get a x230 with way more software freedom, which is half the price 
mricon
yeah, I don't regret getting a Librem, but I've also learned that I mostly just fell for marketing 
blacklight[m]
Anyway, spreading fud will not help copperhead, dnj, or daniel, you wont even gain anything from it yourself, so what do you hope to possibly gain from all of this nonsense 
* JollyRoger[m] nods. 
mricon
I would certainly regret it more if work didn't reimburse me for the cost of Librem. :) 
JollyRoger[m]
XD. Hehehehe. 
→ Asara has joined 
shiver
"This shouldn't even be a profitable company -- it should be a non-profit open source project." 
this is why i hate hacker news 
mricon
non-profit does not mean "doesn't earn any money" :) 
JollyRoger[m]
As for me... I decided to wait and in the end I ordered a Raptor Talos II. Now that the Talos Lite is out though the piece of a practical POWER computer has fallen hugely. 
Unfortunately it isn't very portable. 
**the price of 
MilkManzJourDaddy
Should the Dev's sleep in cardboard boxes, and hunt rats?  Canada is a bit cold at times. 
mricon
yeah, not super conducive to writing good code...