Getting "No response" from all shellys and after a retry all come back

[pivale]

Hey guys,

Not sure if this is a problem of my setup or if anyone is having the same issue.

From time to time (not always), when I open Home app I see all shellys as "No response" after a loading period.

If I close the app and return to it later (or if I leave it open for a while) the app will retry and get the correct status.

Some thoughts on this:

• I only have one router for the all house
• One of the shellys is literally 1 meter away from the router
• The WC ones are fibaro's and work using bluetooth
• It's not network or it would also lose connectivity to the apple tv or any other apps on my mobile
• It's all at the same time, the others respond correctly
• I'm not seeing this happening on only one or a couple... It's either all or none
• Maybe the calls on the shellys to get the status are taking too long and some other equipment (hub, for example) is also asking and the other call takes too long
• I think this is also affecting my automations, since some are not being triggered from time to time

Any ideas on what the problem might be? SW or maybe on my side...

[yehuda2525]

I have the same problem 🤔

[andyblac]

just started with iOS14.1 ?, is it just on phone or is Hub still detectig them ok ?

[pivale]

I don't recall having this before v2.3.0... Not sure if it's related
I'm on iOS14.1 but it was happening already on 14.0.1
The Hub is an Apple TV, I don't think I can check there, or can I?

[andyblac]

yeah tvOS has homekit iirc, double press home to get menu iirc.

[juancitomadrid]

I have been researching the subject for several days and it seems that there is no clear solution.
Some say it is due to the "multicast" option on the network.
Others say that "mdns" should be enabled when there is more than one network.
I have also read that there are communication problems between the different 2ghz / 5ghz networks.

I have installed the "Discovery" app and I can see that some of my shellys are randomly connecting and disconnecting.

[pivale]

yeah tvOS has homekit iirc, double press home to get menu iirc.

It's a long press and then you can enter a Home like menu, but only "Scenes" are available there.

[andyblac]

ah ok.

[socialsubs]

Hey guys,

Not sure if this is a problem of my setup or if anyone is having the same issue.

From time to time (not always), when I open Home app I see all shellys as "No response" after a loading period.

If I close the app and return to it later (or if I leave it open for a while) the app will retry and get the correct status.

Some thoughts on this:

• I only have one router for the all house
• One of the shellys is literally 1 meter away from the router
• The WC ones are fibaro's and work using bluetooth
• It's not network or it would also lose connectivity to the apple tv or any other apps on my mobile
• It's all at the same time, the others respond correctly
• I'm not seeing this happening on only one or a couple... It's either all or none
• Maybe the calls on the shellys to get the status are taking too long and some other equipment (hub, for example) is also asking and the other call takes too long
• I think this is also affecting my automations, since some are not being triggered from time to time

Any ideas on what the problem might be? SW or maybe on my side...

I had the same problem and after several tests, I basically solved it by setting the wifi channel manually. I have a Mesh network (2.4GHz + 5GHz) with one FRITZ!Box router and three FRITZ!Powerline.
Now the problem only occurs occasionally when I connect from outside then i just close and restart the app to get the devices back online.

[juancitomadrid]

I had the same problem and after several tests, I basically solved it by setting the wifi channel manually. I have a Mesh network (2.4GHz + 5GHz) with one FRITZ!Box router and three FRITZ!Powerline.
Now the problem only occurs occasionally when I connect from outside then i just close and restart the app to get the devices back online.

I have not tried putting the 5ghz channels in manual (only 2ghz). I will try, thanks for exposing experience.

[pivale]

I have not tried putting the 5ghz channels in manual (only 2ghz). I will try, thanks for exposing experience.

The Shellys use only the 2,4ghz band, so changing the 5ghz shouldn't affect.
If you try it, let us know of the results

[andyblac]

i found that it best to keep a totally seperate SSID for IoT on fixed 2.4Ghz, as some router / AP's support combining band into one SSID with a prefered band aka 5Ghz, but this can cause issue with some IoT devcies, even though the they do not support 5Ghz the router / AP still tries to attach that device to 5Ghz, and thus the device can drop connections as the AP tried to move it to the other band.

[juancitomadrid]

The Shellys use only the 2,4ghz band, so changing the 5ghz shouldn't affect.
If you try it, let us know of the results

i found that it best to keep a totally seperate SSID for IoT on fixed 2.4Ghz, as some router / AP's support combining band into one SSID with a prefered band aka 5Ghz, but this can cause issue with some IoT devcies, even though the they do not support 5Ghz the router / AP still tries to attach that device to 5Ghz, and thus the device can drop connections as the AP tried to move it to the other band.

As @andyblac says, although the shellys only use the 2ghz band, the problem (I think) is in the AP and the connection with the bridge or the other devices.

Now I am going to configure an exclusive network for Iot in 2ghz and we will see if it improves.
https://youtu.be/ptqa7JXbS5U

However my connections are random and it almost always happens when I am connected to a different AP than the one the shellys are on.
For example, if I go down to the basement with the iPhone and open the home app, I immediately see the shellys that are connected to the AP in the basement, but many times I also see the others ... at times it "sees" them and at times it doesn't.

[andyblac]

@juancitomadrid to me your issue sounds like a switch issue more than an AP issue, i am not an expert but, it does sound like the switch is not handling Multicast very well between all your AP's.

just for info i use a Unifi switch and Unifi AP's

[rojer]

so, i have a theory that our Bonjour/DNS-SD advertisements get lost sometimes and the records expire. we only advertise once during the TTL period (2 minutes).
can you try this firmware: https://rojer.me/files/shelly/2.4.0-beta2/
it has more frequent advertisements (every 20 seconds instead of every 60), hopefully enough will get through so records don't expire. @juancitomadrid can you try this one over the next few days and let me know if it's any better?

[andyblac]

@rojer related to this ? #108

[rojer]

yep, possibly.

[juancitomadrid]

@juancitomadrid to me your issue sounds like a switch issue more than an AP issue, i am not an expert but, it does sound like the switch is not handling Multicast very well between all your AP's.

just for info i use a Unifi switch and Unifi AP's

Can you explain this point please?
This is my Setup:

I have Tp-link switch, I don't know If I can change something on it.
I can configure on edgerouter I think.

[juancitomadrid]

so, i have a theory that our Bonjour/DNS-SD advertisements get lost sometimes and the records expire. we only advertise once during the TTL period (2 minutes).
can you try this firmware: https://rojer.me/files/shelly/2.4.0-beta2/
it has more frequent advertisements (every 20 seconds instead of every 60), hopefully enough will get through so records don't expire. @juancitomadrid can you try this one over the next few days and let me know if it's any better?

I going to do now!
Thanks @rojer !!!

[andyblac]

@juancitomadrid looking at the diagram, and am i correct in saying that the basement Shelly, is the one that is the issue ?, as that is the only only one on the TP-LINK switch, so it does indeed piont to the issue being releated to the switch. i take it is a simple unmanaged switch (ie layer 1 only)

[juancitomadrid]

@juancitomadrid looking at the diagram, and am i correct in saying that the basement Shelly, is the one that is the issue ?, as that is the only only one on the TP-LINK switch, so it does indeed piont to the issue being releated to the switch. i take it is a simple unmanaged switch (ie layer 1 only)

You are right...
This is my switch (thinking of changing it for one of unifi).
https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00JKB63D8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[juancitomadrid]

@rojer since I installed the beta 2.4.0 beta2 (25 min ago) I have not had any disconnection ...

The weird thing is that I see in the Discovery app that if they disappear from the "_hap._tcp."

[andyblac]

@juancitomadrid looking at the diagram, and am i correct in saying that the basement Shelly, is the one that is the issue ?, as that is the only only one on the TP-LINK switch, so it does indeed piont to the issue being releated to the switch. i take it is a simple unmanaged switch (ie layer 1 only)

You are right...
This is my switch (thinking of changing it for one of unifi).
https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00JKB63D8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

yeah it a simple dumb unmanaged switch, it won't help, it probably not handling multicast / MDNS very well.

[rojer]

@juancitomadrid 25 minutes is not much of a runtime, let's keep monitoring.

[juancitomadrid]

yeah it a simple dumb unmanaged switch, it won't help, it probably not handling multicast / MDNS very well.

I thought that was managed on the router or in the unifi controller.

[andyblac]

yeah it a simple dumb unmanaged switch, it won't help, it probably not handling multicast / MDNS very well.

I thought that was managed on the router or in the unifi controller.

no, switches are self managed. if they are layer 2 / 3, unifi switches do get managed via unifi controller, but it has no effect on other manufactures switches.

[juancitomadrid]

Still working perfect for me @rojer

Before this beta. He had cuts every very short time.

It is also true that I did something else. Create a new network (with new ssid) and connect the shellys to that new network. Then I removed it and reconnected them to the main network again. Perhaps this has “reset” something in the shellys?

[rojer]

@juancitomadrid i see. can you downgrade to https://rojer.me/files/shelly/2.4.0-beta1/ and see if there's a difference? does it go back to disconnecting? i'd like to know for sure if it was my change or something else. because of what Supereg said here i don't want to be doing more frequently something that we're not supposed to be doing at all :)

[juancitomadrid]

Of course I can.
But I will be out until Sunday.
I’ll do

[jsiegenthaler]

I am having similar problems with my one and only Shelly1 running mongoose 2.3.1 sometimes reporting No Response.
I feel it happens more in the morning, but that may be because it is in a bathroom and I use the bathroom more in the morning.

Observed on Homebridge v1.2.3, so I downgraded to Homebridge v1.1.6
But now of course I realise that mongoose does not run through Homebridge so that should not be an issue.
I have 5 other Shelly1s on standard Shelly firmware going via Homebridge.
(My Mongoose Shelly1 is a trial to check stability and features before I change all others)

Environment:
IoT on separate 2.4GHz AccessPoint (old NetGear WNDR3700), running in bridge mode to my LAN.
LAN is 1gig LAN using cheap NetGear 4-port switch direct to my main cable-modem, WiFi access point.
WNDR5700 has 5GHz disabled, as I know Shelly1s are 2.4GHz only. 5GHz has different SSID (but is disabled).

Is there any logging I can do to help?
I do have a raspberry pi4 running 24x7 with Homebridge installed

[pivale]

I'm still having some trouble, although it might be that my network equipment is at fault...

Also, I've installed an old powerline access point I had here (tp-link tp-wpa2220) to improve connectivity where it was worst, but none of the shellys is connecting there! I can connect with our home devices (iphone, ipad, macbook) but the shellys don't connect at all, although the signal is the strongest and the SSID is the same... Even after a reboot.

Any thoughts on this? Any suggestions on how to proceed?

[Marcusyo]

Im currently using the beta with the shortened response time and I think that its gotten better for me without using an HP, Apple TV or Ipad. Is it possible to add an feature for setting an custom response time? Think in the beta it got reduced from 60 to 20 seconds. Already good but for me i would like to have 2-5 seconds response time if its possible to implement.

[juancitomadrid]

Im currently using the beta with the shortened response time and I think that its gotten better for me without using an HP, Apple TV or Ipad. Is it possible to add an feature for setting an custom response time? Think in the beta it got reduced from 60 to 20 seconds. Already good but for me i would like to have 2-5 seconds response time if its possible to implement.

IMO
And because something similar has happened to me, the problem is not in the firmware, it is in the network.
I had problems of "delays" and "disconnection", I changed the configuration of my network and everything goes smoothly (same firmware as in the previous network)

[socialsubs]

IMO
And because something similar has happened to me, the problem is not in the firmware, it is in the network.
I had problems of "delays" and "disconnection", I changed the configuration of my network and everything goes smoothly (same firmware as in the previous network)

I agree with you. I have an ecobee smart thermostat (HomeKit) that was showing the same issues before I fine tuned the network configuration.

[andyblac]

I think we can close this now ? as it is not firmware related ?

[pivale]

yeah, I think you can close it, since it appears not to be firmware related...

but I would still appreciate thoughts from all of you on this... I'm puzzled and don't know what else to do!

I'm still having some trouble, although it might be that my network equipment is at fault...

Also, I've installed an old powerline access point I had here (tp-link tp-wpa2220) to improve connectivity where it was worst, but none of the shellys is connecting there! I can connect with our home devices (iphone, ipad, macbook) but the shellys don't connect at all, although the signal is the strongest and the SSID is the same... Even after a reboot.

Any thoughts on this? Any suggestions on how to proceed?

[juancitomadrid]

yeah, I think you can close it, since it appears not to be firmware related...

but I would still appreciate thoughts from all of you on this... I'm puzzled and don't know what else to do!

@pivale I`ll tell you everything I have done and what I have read that can cause this type of problems, to see if they help.

Switch
To discard a switch problem, plug the ap directly into the router and see if the problem continues.

SSID
Same for both (5ghz and 2ghz)

2GHz only wifi
Try with a only 2GHz network

Multicast ENABLE

mDNS
If you have to networks you must enable mDNS on your network settings

Anyway
I have tried everything and still had problems.
I fixed it when I went back to the factory settings on all my APs and router, and started configuring everything from scratch.

Hope this help.

[socialsubs]

@pivale I`ll tell you everything I have done and what I have read that can cause this type of problems, to see if they help.

Switch
To discard a switch problem, plug the ap directly into the router and see if the problem continues.

SSID
Same for both (5ghz and 2ghz)

2GHz only wifi
Try with a only 2GHz network

Multicast ENABLE

mDNS
If you have to networks you must enable mDNS on your network settings

Anyway
I have tried everything and still had problems.
I fixed it when I went back to the factory settings on all my APs and router, and started configuring everything from scratch.

Hope this help.

I've a mesh Wi-Fi network and I solved by setting a fixed Wi-Fi channel.

[andyblac]

@pivale I`ll tell you everything I have done and what I have read that can cause this type of problems, to see if they help.
Switch
To discard a switch problem, plug the ap directly into the router and see if the problem continues.
SSID
Same for both (5ghz and 2ghz)
2GHz only wifi
Try with a only 2GHz network
Multicast ENABLE
mDNS
If you have to networks you must enable mDNS on your network settings
Anyway
I have tried everything and still had problems.
I fixed it when I went back to the factory settings on all my APs and router, and started configuring everything from scratch.
Hope this help.

I've a mesh Wi-Fi network and I solved by setting a fixed Wi-Fi channel.

can you add this to wiki.

[d4rkmen]

Reporting here my experience: one esp device works fine. Adding another one cause mDNS “flapping” which is the reason of lost discovery and “communication problems” in paired esp
Also it refuse to pair unpaired esp

[pivale]

yeah, I think you can close it, since it appears not to be firmware related...

but I would still appreciate thoughts from all of you on this... I'm puzzled and don't know what else to do!

I'm still having some trouble, although it might be that my network equipment is at fault...
Also, I've installed an old powerline access point I had here (tp-link tp-wpa2220) to improve connectivity where it was worst, but none of the shellys is connecting there! I can connect with our home devices (iphone, ipad, macbook) but the shellys don't connect at all, although the signal is the strongest and the SSID is the same... Even after a reboot.
Any thoughts on this? Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Got it to work.
Not sure why, but it would not connect to the strongest one, it rather keeps the current one (maybe by mac address of the AP?).
I switched off momentarily the weakest AP, the shellys connected to the powerline AP and now they are all good.

I seldom see disconnects now.
I might need to revamp my whole network, but it's not a something I will work on on the short term.
Thank you all for the suggestions

[andyblac]

yeah, I think you can close it, since it appears not to be firmware related...
but I would still appreciate thoughts from all of you on this... I'm puzzled and don't know what else to do!

I'm still having some trouble, although it might be that my network equipment is at fault...
Also, I've installed an old powerline access point I had here (tp-link tp-wpa2220) to improve connectivity where it was worst, but none of the shellys is connecting there! I can connect with our home devices (iphone, ipad, macbook) but the shellys don't connect at all, although the signal is the strongest and the SSID is the same... Even after a reboot.
Any thoughts on this? Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Got it to work.
Not sure why, but it would not connect to the strongest one, it rather keeps the current one (maybe by mac address of the AP?).
I switched off momentarily the weakest AP, the shellys connected to the powerline AP and now they are all good.

I seldom see disconnects now.
I might need to revamp my whole network, but it's not a something I will work on on the short term.
Thank you all for the suggestions

if you have RSSI control in the your AP's it might be worth playing around with it, i have an AP in every room of the house, and as thus i had to tune the RSSI's to stop 'hopping' of the clients between AP's

[juancitomadrid]

if you have RSSI control in the your AP's it might be worth playing around with it, i have an AP in every room of the house, and as thus i had to tune the RSSI's to stop 'hopping' of the clients between AP's

@andyblac Could you tell us what specifications you have put on each APs?
Unifi controller no longer allows to change the ssid to each AP, and some of my devices connect to a distant ap instead of the closest one.

[juancitomadrid]

@pivale I`ll tell you everything I have done and what I have read that can cause this type of problems, to see if they help.
Switch
To discard a switch problem, plug the ap directly into the router and see if the problem continues.
SSID
Same for both (5ghz and 2ghz)
2GHz only wifi
Try with a only 2GHz network
Multicast ENABLE
mDNS
If you have to networks you must enable mDNS on your network settings
Anyway
I have tried everything and still had problems.
I fixed it when I went back to the factory settings on all my APs and router, and started configuring everything from scratch.
Hope this help.

I've a mesh Wi-Fi network and I solved by setting a fixed Wi-Fi channel.

can you add this to wiki.

of course.

Edited: I just saw that @pivale has done it! Thanks.

[andyblac]

if you have RSSI control in the your AP's it might be worth playing around with it, i have an AP in every room of the house, and as thus i had to tune the RSSI's to stop 'hopping' of the clients between AP's

@andyblac Could you tell us what specifications you have put on each APs?
Unifi controller no longer allows to change the ssid to each AP, and some of my devices connect to a distant ap instead of the closest one.

all my AP's have the same SSID for 2.4Ghz i am talking about RSSI.

as you can see, i have the power set to medium and RSSI to -75db, so if your furthest AP's is higher than xx you canget it to refuse the connection.

[juancitomadrid]

all my AP's have the same SSID for 2.4Ghz i am talking about RSSI.

as you can see, i have the power set to medium and RSSI to -75db

Perfect!
I have it exactly the same configuration.
The only thing I didn't have was the minimum of RSSI enable. I Will try.
Thanks!

[andyblac]

Perfect!
I have it exactly the same configuration.
The only thing I didn't have was the minimum of RSSI enable. I Will try.
Thanks!

take a look at your client list and the their RSSI's to get an idea what signal strength is on each AP', you'll need to pay around, take a little while to get tuned correctly.

[andyblac]

here what i have

[rojer]

@d4rkmen those are different devices, looks like one is paired and one is not:

$ grep :42 q
c#=1 ff=0 id=3A:97:BC:EA:3D:42 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=1 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=3A:97:BC:EA:3D:42 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=1 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=3A:97:BC:EA:3D:42 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=1 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=3A:97:BC:EA:3D:42 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=1 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=3A:97:BC:EA:3D:42 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=1 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=3A:97:BC:EA:3D:42 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=1 ci=21
$ grep :F9 q
c#=1 ff=0 id=5A:C3:E4:46:DF:F9 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=0 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=5A:C3:E4:46:DF:F9 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=0 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=5A:C3:E4:46:DF:F9 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=0 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=5A:C3:E4:46:DF:F9 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=0 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=5A:C3:E4:46:DF:F9 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=0 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=5A:C3:E4:46:DF:F9 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=0 ci=21
c#=1 ff=0 id=5A:C3:E4:46:DF:F9 md=MEL-AC pv=1.1 s#=1 sf=0 ci=21

[rojer]

Not sure why, but it would not connect to the strongest one, it rather keeps the current one (maybe by mac address of the AP?).

this is known behavior of esp8266 - when looking for AP to connect to, it will connect to the first matchin AP it finds, it won't wait for more scan results to possibly find one with better signal. the first AP with matching SSID wins.
unfortunately, we have no control over that behavior...

[andyblac]

Not sure why, but it would not connect to the strongest one, it rather keeps the current one (maybe by mac address of the AP?).

this is known behavior of esp8266 - when looking for AP to connect to, it will connect to the first matchin AP it finds, it won't wait for more scan results to possibly find one with better signal. the first AP with matching SSID wins.
unfortunately, we have no control over that behavior...

yeah, which is why i use RSSI to best handle this. But it does require the AP's to support RSSI control.

[andyblac]

@pivale this still an issue ?, or can i close ticket ?

[pivale]

All seems to be working fine now.
This was a networking problem. All the findings were documented here:
https://github.com/mongoose-os-apps/shelly-homekit/wiki/Trouble-Shooting

[d4rkmen]

It's not resolved so far, due to other nature of the problem
From time to time in real life with multiple HAP accessories running it's reproducing easy

apple/HomeKitADK#75

[andyblac]

@rojer do you think it is a firmware issue on this project or issue elsewhere ?
like this #129

[75TiagoMatias]

Hello guys, I just want to share my 2cents.

I had this EXACT same problem, the bloody "No Response" red text under the devices in Home App, almost every time I opened the Home App. Had to close and open 2/3 times to get the real status.

Tried changing wifi channels, firmware update, only 2,4ghz wifi connection, change the iPad Hub, fixed IP's, etc, nothing solved the issue.

And the simples solution (as mentioned before, but I just want to share my episode) was CHANGE the damn router!!
I bought a simple Xiaomi AX3600 and its WORKING like a charm!! Awesome, everything works blazing fast... It was just a router problem.. My stupid old Vodafone stock router was trash!

Well, nothing more to add, just want to say... If you have connectivity problems in Home App, change the bloody router!

Cheers! ;)

[andyblac]

@pivale can this issue be closed ?

[pivale]

From me, all is good.
We've also added the findings to the wiki, so I'm happy if we close it