diff --git a/packages/cli/src/commons.ts b/packages/cli/src/commons.ts
index 72f3e88412..ce005d471d 100644
--- a/packages/cli/src/commons.ts
+++ b/packages/cli/src/commons.ts
@@ -138,7 +138,6 @@ export const checkPreconditions =
   () =>
   async <T extends FeathersBaseContext>(ctx: T) => {
     if (!ctx.feathers) {
-      console.log(ctx)
       throw new Error(`Can not run generator since the current folder does not appear to be a Feathers application.
 Either your package.json is missing or it does not have \`feathers\` property.
 `)
diff --git a/packages/express/src/index.ts b/packages/express/src/index.ts
index 49745f274d..4699da5da0 100644
--- a/packages/express/src/index.ts
+++ b/packages/express/src/index.ts
@@ -102,19 +102,6 @@ export default function feathersExpress<S = any, C = any>(
       debug('Feathers application listening')
 
       return server
-    },
-
-    async teardown(server?: any) {
-      return feathersTeardown.call(this, server).then(
-        () =>
-          new Promise((resolve, reject) => {
-            if (this.server) {
-              this.server.close((e) => (e ? reject(e) : resolve(this)))
-            } else {
-              resolve(this)
-            }
-          })
-      )
     }
   } as Application<S, C>)
 
@@ -138,6 +125,21 @@ export default function feathersExpress<S = any, C = any>(
     }
   })
 
+  // Assign teardown and setup which will also make sure that hooks are initialized
+  app.setup = feathersApp.setup as any
+  app.teardown = async function teardown(server?: any) {
+    return feathersTeardown.call(this, server).then(
+      () =>
+        new Promise((resolve, reject) => {
+          if (this.server) {
+            this.server.close((e) => (e ? reject(e) : resolve(this)))
+          } else {
+            resolve(this)
+          }
+        })
+    )
+  }
+
   app.configure(routing() as any)
 
   return app
diff --git a/packages/express/test/rest.test.ts b/packages/express/test/rest.test.ts
index 8a48a846c6..f6d6e7c3a4 100644
--- a/packages/express/test/rest.test.ts
+++ b/packages/express/test/rest.test.ts
@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@ import axios, { AxiosRequestConfig } from 'axios'
 
 import { Server } from 'http'
 import { Request, Response, NextFunction } from 'express'
-import { feathers, HookContext, Id, Params } from '@feathersjs/feathers'
+import { ApplicationHookMap, feathers, HookContext, Id, Params } from '@feathersjs/feathers'
 import { Service, restTests } from '@feathersjs/tests'
 import { BadRequest } from '@feathersjs/errors'
 
@@ -102,6 +102,21 @@ describe('@feathersjs/express/rest provider', () => {
         .use('/', new Service())
         .use('todo', new Service())
 
+      app.hooks({
+        setup: [
+          async (context, next) => {
+            assert.ok(context.app)
+            await next()
+          }
+        ],
+        teardown: [
+          async (context, next) => {
+            assert.ok(context.app)
+            await next()
+          }
+        ]
+      } as ApplicationHookMap<express.Application>)
+
       await app.listen(4777, () => app.use('tasks', new Service()))
     })
 
diff --git a/packages/feathers/src/application.ts b/packages/feathers/src/application.ts
index bf0c58716f..c0997d1f56 100644
--- a/packages/feathers/src/application.ts
+++ b/packages/feathers/src/application.ts
@@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
 import version from './version'
 import { EventEmitter } from 'events'
 import { stripSlashes, createDebug } from '@feathersjs/commons'
-import { hooks, middleware } from '@feathersjs/hooks'
+import { HOOKS, hooks, middleware } from '@feathersjs/hooks'
 import { eventHook, eventMixin } from './events'
 import { hookMixin } from './hooks'
 import { wrapService, getServiceOptions, protectedMethods } from './service'
@@ -33,14 +33,6 @@ export class Feathers<Services, Settings>
 
   constructor() {
     super()
-    hooks(this, {
-      setup: middleware().params('server').props({
-        app: this
-      }),
-      teardown: middleware().params('server').props({
-        app: this
-      })
-    })
     this.registerHooks = enableHooks(this)
     this.registerHooks({
       around: [eventHook]
@@ -80,6 +72,76 @@ export class Feathers<Services, Settings>
     return current as any
   }
 
+  protected _setup() {
+    this._isSetup = true
+
+    return Object.keys(this.services)
+      .reduce(
+        (current, path) =>
+          current.then(() => {
+            const service: any = this.service(path as any)
+
+            if (typeof service.setup === 'function') {
+              debug(`Setting up service for \`${path}\``)
+
+              return service.setup(this, path)
+            }
+          }),
+        Promise.resolve()
+      )
+      .then(() => this)
+  }
+
+  get setup() {
+    return this._setup
+  }
+
+  set setup(value) {
+    this._setup = (value as any)[HOOKS]
+      ? value
+      : hooks(
+          value,
+          middleware().params('server').props({
+            app: this
+          })
+        )
+  }
+
+  protected _teardown() {
+    this._isSetup = false
+
+    return Object.keys(this.services)
+      .reduce(
+        (current, path) =>
+          current.then(() => {
+            const service: any = this.service(path as any)
+
+            if (typeof service.teardown === 'function') {
+              debug(`Tearing down service for \`${path}\``)
+
+              return service.teardown(this, path)
+            }
+          }),
+        Promise.resolve()
+      )
+      .then(() => this)
+  }
+
+  get teardown() {
+    return this._teardown
+  }
+
+  set teardown(value) {
+    this._teardown = (value as any)[HOOKS]
+      ? value
+      : hooks(
+          value,
+          middleware().params('server').props({
+            app: this
+          })
+        )
+  }
+
   use<L extends keyof Services & string>(
     path: L,
     service: keyof any extends keyof Services ? ServiceInterface | Application : Services[L],
@@ -159,44 +221,4 @@ export class Feathers<Services, Settings>
 
     return this
   }
-
-  setup() {
-    this._isSetup = true
-
-    return Object.keys(this.services)
-      .reduce(
-        (current, path) =>
-          current.then(() => {
-            const service: any = this.service(path as any)
-
-            if (typeof service.setup === 'function') {
-              debug(`Setting up service for \`${path}\``)
-
-              return service.setup(this, path)
-            }
-          }),
-        Promise.resolve()
-      )
-      .then(() => this)
-  }
-
-  teardown() {
-    this._isSetup = false
-
-    return Object.keys(this.services)
-      .reduce(
-        (current, path) =>
-          current.then(() => {
-            const service: any = this.service(path as any)
-
-            if (typeof service.teardown === 'function') {
-              debug(`Tearing down service for \`${path}\``)
-
-              return service.teardown(this, path)
-            }
-          }),
-        Promise.resolve()
-      )
-      .then(() => this)
-  }
 }
diff --git a/packages/feathers/test/hooks/app.test.ts b/packages/feathers/test/hooks/app.test.ts
index 2da944343d..2ad8ca0e35 100644
--- a/packages/feathers/test/hooks/app.test.ts
+++ b/packages/feathers/test/hooks/app.test.ts
@@ -56,6 +56,17 @@ describe('app.hooks', () => {
 
   it('.setup and .teardown special hooks', async () => {
     const app = feathers()
+
+    // Test that setup and teardown can be overwritten
+    const oldSetup = app.setup
+    app.setup = function (arg: any) {
+      return oldSetup.call(this, arg)
+    }
+    const oldTeardown = app.teardown
+    app.teardown = function (arg: any) {
+      return oldTeardown.call(this, arg)
+    }
+
     const order: string[] = []
     const hooks: ApplicationHookMap<typeof app> = {
       setup: [
diff --git a/packages/koa/src/index.ts b/packages/koa/src/index.ts
index ff4424b624..8ee9a0547a 100644
--- a/packages/koa/src/index.ts
+++ b/packages/koa/src/index.ts
@@ -82,6 +82,10 @@ export function koa<S = any, C = any>(
 
   koaQs(app as any)
 
+  // This reinitializes hooks
+  app.setup = feathersApp.setup as any
+  app.teardown = feathersApp.teardown as any
+
   app.configure(routing() as any)
   app.use((ctx, next) => {
     ctx.feathers = { ...ctx.feathers, provider: 'rest' }
diff --git a/packages/koa/test/index.test.ts b/packages/koa/test/index.test.ts
index f288969910..ec39f688c5 100644
--- a/packages/koa/test/index.test.ts
+++ b/packages/koa/test/index.test.ts
@@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
 import { strict as assert } from 'assert'
 import Koa from 'koa'
 import axios from 'axios'
-import { feathers, Id } from '@feathersjs/feathers'
+import { ApplicationHookMap, feathers, Id } from '@feathersjs/feathers'
 import { Service, restTests } from '@feathersjs/tests'
 import { koa, rest, Application, bodyParser, errorHandler } from '../src'
 
@@ -41,6 +41,21 @@ describe('@feathersjs/koa', () => {
       methods: ['get', 'find', 'create', 'update', 'patch', 'remove', 'customMethod']
     })
 
+    app.hooks({
+      setup: [
+        async (context, next) => {
+          assert.ok(context.app)
+          await next()
+        }
+      ],
+      teardown: [
+        async (context, next) => {
+          assert.ok(context.app)
+          await next()
+        }
+      ]
+    } as ApplicationHookMap<Application>)
+
     await app.listen(8465)
   })
 
diff --git a/packages/socketio/package.json b/packages/socketio/package.json
index 723b4c2468..80eedda270 100644
--- a/packages/socketio/package.json
+++ b/packages/socketio/package.json
@@ -55,7 +55,6 @@
   "dependencies": {
     "@feathersjs/commons": "^5.0.0-pre.29",
     "@feathersjs/feathers": "^5.0.0-pre.29",
-    "@feathersjs/hooks": "^0.7.5",
     "@feathersjs/transport-commons": "^5.0.0-pre.29",
     "socket.io": "^4.5.2"
   },
diff --git a/packages/socketio/src/index.ts b/packages/socketio/src/index.ts
index 6e894c0a5f..e392206713 100644
--- a/packages/socketio/src/index.ts
+++ b/packages/socketio/src/index.ts
@@ -3,7 +3,6 @@ import { Server, ServerOptions } from 'socket.io'
 import { createDebug } from '@feathersjs/commons'
 import { Application } from '@feathersjs/feathers'
 import { socket } from '@feathersjs/transport-commons'
-import { hooks, middleware } from '@feathersjs/hooks'
 
 import { disconnect, params, authentication, FeathersSocket } from './middleware'
 
@@ -89,10 +88,6 @@ function configureSocketio(port?: any, options?: any, config?: any) {
           return setup.call(this, server, ...rest)
         }
       })
-
-      hooks(app, {
-        setup: middleware().params('server').props({ app })
-      })
     })
 
     app.configure(