Update Klipper to 0.12 and Python to Python 3 #53
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I am currently setting up a new system based on Debian 12 for the MAX3 Plus3 series machines. The system is up and running, and I am currently testing print quality and other aspects. The new image is expected to be available in a few days. |
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Will you be updating Fluid to the latest version as well? |
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And Moonraker? (just to complete the list) :D |
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Currently, this system is based on Debian 12 and includes Python 3.11.2. It has the latest versions of Klipper, Moonraker, and Fluidd installed, along with plugins such as Adaptive Mesh, Crownset, and Spoolman. Is there anything else that needs to be added? |
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I'll let others chime in, but I believe that covers the full stack. Thank you very much for your efforts! |
moonraker-timelapse, klippain-shaketune, and I haven't installed plr-klipper yet but it would definitely be useful: https://github.com/The--Captain/plr-klipper Something like this that automatically calculates z-offset would also be amazing: https://github.com/hawkeyexp/auto_offset_z |
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Auto Z offset to eliminate using the leveling sheets, like Q1P, would be awesome (if technically possible).
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@CChen616 Hello - wanted to know how testing is going? Did you look at the above requested items as well? Thank you for all of the work you are doing!! |
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CChen has been nothing but gracious and polite. And I appreciate the openness. However, the likelihood that CChen is going to respond to any additional needs or wants for the firmware update, now that this has completely gone off the rails, is slim to none. Thanks guys. You've likely chased away a well intentioned developer. Apologies to CChen. I was merely hopeful that perhaps with the rest of the software upgrades, maybe even with a Qidi-offered inductive probe option, it might be possible to do a Q1P sort of Z offset upgrade. You know, something easy and factory supported. |
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Currently debugging the power loss recovery feature and automating some configurations. For Q1 model, we used additional sensors to assist in automatically setting the Z offset, which may not be applicable to the Max3 model. Furthermore, because the Max3 control system stores the Z offset externally (in config.mksini) instead of in the Klipper configuration file (likely to avoid the need to restart Klipper), these solutions may not be applicable :( |
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CChen, thank you for looking in to this for us. Not everything is possible. Maybe one day.... :) Excited about the power loss recovery. I live in an area with frequent, usually brief, power outages due to strong weather and hurricanes. It will be a really useful feature for me. |
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@CChen616 someone has asked me if the Smart3 can follow the same procedure to update to the latest software. Are the menuconfig settings the same for the Max3/Plus3/Smart3? If so, as long as they reinstalled the firmware, they should be able to use the same image with a working screen? Does it matter that the motherboard is X-6 vs X-4? |
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@billkenney imo they should contact customer support. This isn't the place for that sort of help. |
They are basically the same except for the |
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Regarding power loss recovery, I spent several days testing and found that due to hardware limitations, the Z-axis of the MAX3 model cannot maintain its height during a power loss, making recovery almost impossible :( Any solution to this issue? |
@CChen616 I'm waiting on some parts to get my printer back up and running, but I can do some testing in the next 2-3 weeks and let you know if have any success. Were you testing with settings similar to the Q1 or different settings? If you could share those settings, it would give me (and others) a good place to start. |
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Imho the recovery is not essential, anyway yes the Z motors can’t hold the position without energy. Possibly a small battery to just power the motors in case of power loss. Honestly I am much more happy for the OS and software updates (in my case for the x-plus 3). if you want, as small improvement, enable “object exclusion” by default (this can already be done by upgrading fluid to a never compatible release). |
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Here is the new image link: |
Nice work! You may not have tested this yet, but based on your previous responses, do you think the Plus3 can also use this image as long as they update the printer.cfg and flash the mcus? And do you think the Smart3 can use this image as long as they update the firmware, update the printer.cfg, and flash the mcus? I note that Qidi is not providing warranty support for this, which is understandable. Thanks for your work and for putting the image out independently. |
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For the Plus3 and Smart3 models, this image might not be suitable at the moment. It's not just the printer.cfg that needs modification; the main issue is the screen control system. Although I haven't looked deeply into it, there are some differences. Some file paths are hard-coded and need to be changed, and separate UI update files need to be prepared. Edit: The Max3 and Plus3 models use the same motherboard and screen, so after flashing the new image, you just need to adjust the printer.cfg to use it. The Smart3 is not compatible with the new image. |
I guess we'll have to wait and see if someone with the plus3 or smart3 tries to update and reports back. I'll let you know if I hear anything. |
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@CChen616 The QD_Max3_UI5.0 rename to 800_480.tft and insert in root right? |
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Either renaming and put under /root and restart or put directly into USB and update would work |
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@CChen616 I installed the image, logged in via ssh, tried to install something with apt, and I get a bunch of errors. I thought it was because the sources.list was set to china, but I changed the sources to default sources, and I still get these errors: W: Failed to fetch https://apt.debian.org/debian/dists/bookworm/InRelease Could not connect to 127.0.0.1:7890 (127.0.0.1). - connect (111: Connection refused) When I try to clone from GitHub, I get errors: Cloning into '/root/.oh-my-zsh/custom/plugins/warhol'... I get these errors if I'm using bash and zsh as my shell. I don't know what's wrong, but I've never encountered this before. |
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I used clash and forget to remove these settings. sudo nano /etc/environment
# remove these setting
export http_proxy="http://127.0.0.1:7890"
export https_proxy="http://127.0.0.1:7890"
export no_proxy="localhost, 127.0.0.1, *edu.cn"
sudo visudo
# remove these setting
Defaults env_keep+="http_proxy https_proxy no_proxy"
nano ~/.gitconfig
# remove these setting
[http]
proxy=http://127.0.0.1:7890
[https]
proxy=http://127.0.0.1:7890
# change apt source
rm /etc/apt/sources.list
mv /etc/apt/sources.list.bak /etc/apt/sources.list |
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@CChen616 Thank you for the explanation. I removed those 3 lines from /etc/environment. And I removed the env_keep+ from visudo. The only thing in env for mks was http_proxy--the other two were not there. I removed this with When I The http and https proxy were not in /mks/.gitconfig, but they were in /root/.gitconfig file, and I removed those lines After running |
I read there:
I think QIDI took the right decision: all the current printers work pretty well already and all these kind of requests like newest klipper, moonraker, ... are coming from a minority of advanced users which should not result in requests for replacement part of support for modifying the printers. More important would be to update ALL printers to the latest Debian, even if the "printing stack" (klipper & co) stayed the same, because security should be a MUST in every company in 2024. |
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Thanks @CChen616 really appreciate your work on this! I have a current project running on the X-Max 3, but once that is complete, I will test this out myself. |
I respectfully disagree based on the parameters of your own comment. While I greatly appreciate CChen616's work, all of the software involved in the update is subject to the security vulnerabilities that I mentioned both with the outdated Debian and the Python 2.7 install that Klipper and the other related software has dependencies on. While this update will solve short-term issues in that regard, it's not a replacement for a fully manufacturer backed update that resolves the security concerns long-term. The only way to do that is to follow standard Linux and open-source software best practices - all the software sources must be based on the respective package's main releases and updateable using the standard update methods as defined by the package maintainers. Qidi is free to create plug-ins for their specific changes, but the plug-in should follow the package maintainers process for doing so, so their changes don't break the package and allow the system to be updated by standard means. That's how you maintain a system that can be backed by a warranty and reduce support calls/effort in the process. Qidi created their own headache by not following Linux and open-source software best practices. End stop. |
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CCHen, I am not clear on the discussion of updates and warranty. Which of these situations (or maybe something else) is the concern about updates and warranty?
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Uhm...
Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yesnt.... U install an experimanetal version from an "unknown" source (Who try to help the community and try keep this awesome poduct (witch could be easzly threadet as an OTG update from anywhere.... or maybe QIDI is only a 6 man grop and cant handle a ..(very very good!!!) constructive answer at all.. idk. TLDR... if u install this.. ur not getting under warranty! A hero named @CChen616 uses its time, to get u all to a an Up2date version... idk but at least 3 days of trial and error where involved. Only 5 ppl thanked him... No one try to force qidi to an official update... I have my 8gb ... non touched EmmU so... if somthing break.,... I never did any updates.... rigth? RIGHT? Just ---.... PLS QIDI go in the same right direction like Anycubic goes. (or want to go youse there are stupid) .. but just do it faster! U wanna sell? u need to be... at least compareable.# ALSO... Do a Official update... even if @CChen616 is doing this whole work alone, give him some credit and say. as least No... u dont. 3 years .. no official update.... Shame. Even if u now deactivate my printer, casue of security reasons (no i dont have any fear of this.. but some other have fear their printer culd kill them in the night while their are printing....) |
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I sort of doubt that there will be no firmware updates ever. That's more than a little bit pessimistic. There is an entire methodology, based on using the memory stick, to do firmware OS updates. Aurora Tech showed doing this and she noted how very long the updates took because it replaced the entire OS. So, it's a thing. I guess the real question will be in the future, what sorts of official updates will be released by Qidi and will their own releases invalidate the warranty. |
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From a developer's perspective, I define firmware as a read-only program that can only be modified by directly re-flashing it, such as writing Klipper.bin to the motherboard's MCU. My daily development work mainly focuses on software running on the operating system, such as modifying Klipper, Moonraker, writing Python and sh scripts, and developing new screen control systems. Since the bootloader for the Max3 series extruder board and motherboard either doesn't exist or doesn't work well, MCU flashing is currently done manually. Even with the most detailed tutorials, you can't ensure that all users can handle the issues and successfully flash the firmware. This also means providing warranty for potential issues, which is why Klipper updates have not been released. However, this should be improved in the latest generation of machines, which will automate this process. Therefore, for the Max3 series machines, including Plus3 and Smart3, there likely won't be any future updates for Klipper (which requires firmware flashing), the operating system, or Python (which is hard to update with the existing package method). Even if this image is perfected and re-released, the cost of providing connection tools and warranty services for potential issues makes it not worth considering. So, while there may be software updates in the future, there will likely be no firmware updates. However, for those users who have some understanding of the Linux system and want to update Klipper, Python, the operating system by themselves, etc., I will provide as much help as possible (provided they can handle most of the issues that arise during the process). |
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Thank you for the explanation. Would it be possible for new firmware to be supplied on the EMMC so that when the machine boots up it flashes the new firmware correctly? |
That would likely involve a motherboard and extruder board with new firmware. If these were to be sold, they would need to undergo thorough testing. Given the available manpower, I believe the company might prefer to invest in the development of new machines (in fact, I might have already spent too much time on the Max3). 😢 |
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If the printer works, it works. |
OK, I think that is the clarity a lot of us have been waiting on an explanation for. Basically, it's a custom toolhead implementation so we're screwed, just like with the screen. Unfortunately, what is done is done. I kind of take issue with using the term open-source around these printers, because other than the fact it uses open-source software, everything else about it goes against the open-source methodology. Proprietary firmware and hardware that can't be updated is a big no-no. I suggest Qidi stop using that in their marketing material. I honestly don't know why all these 3D printer companies are putting any electronics in the tool head. All you need is a bunch of screw terminals or lever nut connectors on a backer plate to make all the relevant connections, or better yet use a quick-change tool head like the BIQU Hermit Crab. If it's for the input shaping, that can be done on the probe now, with lots of options out there including the BTT Eddy, Cartographer, or Beacon probes. You all are making it harder on yourselves using proprietary designs versus those that are already compatible with existing Voron designs that work fine with the open-source software and don't lock you into specific versions of software. I'm not saying Qidi should just copy Voron by any means, but certainly use already engineered and proven aspects such as the tool head system and linear rails. They also use a fixed bed design precisely for the reason your power-loss recovery doesn't work - bed is too heavy and loses z-axis. But if a tool head gantry design loses z-axis, no big deal, because it just goes back to the height specified in the last g-code sequence. Vorons are certainly not perfect, but that's the great part of an open-source design - there is an entire Github repo out there where users have already solved those issues for you and contributed all the designs back to the community that anyone can use and build upon. |
Yeah, that is a bunch of horse shit. I accept the proprietary hardware explanation even if I don't like it. But that's an abuse of open-source software and is greatly frowned upon to the point companies have been sued and banned for doing stuff like that, especially when they call their machines open-source in their marketing material. |
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From what I understand, every 3D printer company takes Klipper, Moonraker, etc and then modifies it a bit to suit their hardware, just like Qidi does. Qidi states what they do right here: https://github.com/QIDITECH/klipper That's no different than open source Android on phones,. If someone is able to successfully update to the latest and greatest, and comes up with a step-by-step set of flashing instructions, then great. I might try it (after I'm out of the warranty period). Dumb question - I guess I don't understand why Klipper or Moonraker, which are software that presumably reside on the EMMC, require an update to the MCU firmware if the hardware on the machine does not change. |
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@leckert123 i did the update right away and it works. My printer is also not "out of warranty" rn.. but i did quite a few modifications to my printer. so i dont have it anyway. Sure i would rather have an official update, but if this is the only thing we get, ill take it. Dumb answer - i dont know exactly why but.. my 50 cents.. if klipper / Moonraker changes a way how it communicates with the board or printhead, than sometimes u have to adjust the firmware on that so the comunication establishes, or give the right callbacks/commands. And ur right. The printer works out of the box and the update does not bring that much of a difference to the table. I think the same way like i think about pc mainboard bios updates. Pc runs anyway but maybe a bit more stable or bit more performance with newer bios. |
So, this is where we get into proprietary design of the Qidi. As an example, here is the typical file system from an X-Max 3: Filesystem Type 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on What you'll note there is /boot and / (root) live on two different storage devices. The EMMC is actually the / (root) device and the /boot device is local storage on the Raspberry Pi - which is actually your toolhead adapter board. The "main board" is actually a GPIO hat (sub-board) connected to the Raspberry Pi by the USB cable. When you have MCU issues because of the USB cable, it's because the Raspberry Pi lost access to the / (root) volume where all the programs are. When you flash the firmware, you are actually flashing the /boot partition with the bootloader and drivers the Raspberry Pi needs to connect to the main board. In a more typical Voron-style design, like the BTT Manta or Octopus series boards, an actual Raspberry Pi 4 board (or BTT's version of it) attaches to the controller board via the GPIO pins - no USB cable to create a fault. While some Voron-style setups do use a toolhead board, it's a CAN bus breakout board that doesn't have any processing on it. It's just for providing a place to make connections for the heater elements, thermistors, fans, and toolhead extruder. That's somewhat of a simplification of the design, and there are certainly more details than that, but that is the basic gist of what we are working with here. |
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🙄And this is why I make six-figures restoring IT systems of companies full of people who think this way. You know you can change that password and make your system more secure? You also know just like your Wi-Fi router you are encouraged to change it, so you don't get hacked? This is why a lot of companies don't allow Wi-Fi connections to the printers and require them to be connected by Ethernet cable or USB drives only. Sure, at home it isn't a major concern - until someone walks into your house with a compromised device and it attacks your network. With Python 2.7, all it needs to be is on a network and it can be attacked via the ports you already have open on it. |
If can store last known position, then after getting power back, could bed bottom out as low as possible and then start going back up until it reaches last known position? Or there's no way telling, if bed has bottomed up? At least in theory, not sure, if it's possible in practise without rewriting whole Klipper.. |
No it doesn't work that way, you cannot joke on the bottom of the printer is set to home at the top. The one I'm building homes at the bottom so it can do it even with a part on the bed, and no risk of crashing the nozzle, but almost no other printer does it and the qidi(s) cannot. End of the story... |
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How is it not possible? Reading thro Klipper doc you can go in whichever way you want
Reading some more from Klipper doc, it even states, that it works with Z axis, with Z just have to check for force applied, which might be too much for printer itself to handle, especially if hitting the nozzle
Qidi X3 printers don't have leadscrew attached to stepper directly, they are ran by belts, which means no so big forces will be applied. Also wouldn't be hitting the nozzle, which is real weak compared to bottom of the printer |
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Qidi declines to update the software for their printers. |
Look, change the firmware settings to home at bottom and try. If it works then some macros could be modified/written to save the status and resume. If you are asking others to take the effort and potentially damage the printer to test something you would like, I'm afraid the chances are against. |
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I just did test with my printer (X-Max 3) and it works all good. Modified |
Is it reliable and reproducible? |
The current version of Qidi's Klipper firmware is three years old and needs to be updated to a current version to enable users of Qidi hardware to have access to a multitude of recent bug fixes and feature enhancements provided by the main line software branch. Further, Qidi's firmware uses an out-of-support version of Python 2.7 that has many Critical and High-level security vulnerabilities. Python should be updated to Python 3 to correct these security vulnerabilities and enable use of the main line Python code base and modules.
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