focus issues for VST2 in Ableton Live, Bitwig and other hosts

[vcvrackideas]

Hi, finally I can get it working! Cardinal Parameter is gorgeous, thank you! VST2 has no issues with template.vcv so far so it runs.
Some issues if you will:

1. Sometimes when changing focus between DAW, explorer and the plugin itself it loses focus in module browser search field. I can't even type any symbols, every time they are different then I was intented to type and all in CAPS LOCK somehow.
2. More annoying issue than the previous one - any action with windows explorer like save, open, literally anything causes Live's crash. It seems like you said before more porting to windows issues that the plugin itself

Cheers!
EDIT: hotkeys also don't work...
EDIT2: When closing Ableton's project with 5 instances of Cardinal it hangs Ableton and got "doesn't respong" message from windows when trying close it. Seems something with RAM but I don't sure :-)

[falkTX]

1. Sometimes when changing focus between DAW, explorer and the plugin itself it loses focus in module browser search field. I can't even type any symbols, every time they are different then I was intented to type and all in CAPS LOCK somehow.

Very interesting, this is something that is a pain to get right, but should be doable to find something that works.
Something to do in DPF side and VST2 event handling.
I will have to do some tests in Windows to ensure it works correctly.

2. More annoying issue than the previous one - any action with windows explorer like save, open, literally anything causes Live's crash. It seems like you said before more porting to windows issues that the plugin itself

I have an idea of what causes this, this will also be something to fix on DPF side.
Try to avoid such dialogs for now.

Also, using multiple instances is probably not very safe at the moment, specially if using MIDI.
Keep it in 1 instance for now, I am yet to rewrite some core parts to be more multi-instance/thread-safe.

[vcvrackideas]

Thank you! By the way I've noticed that multi instance workflow nicely parallel processing at least in Ableton. Same instance copied to another track only increase 2% of consumption versus 9% of the first one, very cool. Already done some music with it, workflow is unbealiveably nice.

[falkTX]

Issue #2 should be resolved now, testing appreciated.
The other one is much harder, I will need to create simple test audio/vst plugins to verify the behaviour, something for later.

[plyfrm]

Can confirm I am also experiencing #1, running cardinal in FL Studio 20 on windows 7 (both with aero on and off, probably not related but decided to test it anyway to rule it out since I remember older versions of rack having some weird behaviours with that).

The module browser is very hard to use since as soon as it's exited once the search box stops taking keyboard input at all no matter what you do, meaning you have to scroll through everything to find what you're looking for

Hopefully that can be fixed at some point, I have no idea how prevalent that bug is for other users. Thanks for all your work on this!

[JustMog]

i've found it's still possible to input to the search bar, but only with rclick->paste or the numpad.
then you can also move the cursor and delete characters.
not much use of course, but may help diagnose?

[falkTX]

this should be fixed on latest builds, confirmation would be greatly appreciated.

[JustMog]

no change for me

[plyfrm]

The behaviour is slightly different but it's still broken, the search box doesn't take any input even on first focus now

[Nek]

On a bit different topic, VST3 doesn't work for me anywhere on MacOS Monterey. The UI is completely blocked. I've tried Reaper, Renoise, Element, Carla and some other hosts.

[falkTX]

What does "blocked" mean here?

[Nek]

The plugin ignores any kind of user interaction. It acts basically as a static image of its UI.

[falkTX]

so not even mouse input works?

[Nek]

Sadly, no. I'd love to help debug the issue. Maybe I should start with plugin compilation :)

[falkTX]

that would be welcome, sure. you can build using NOPLUGINS=true to speed it up considerably

[Nek]

Great hint! Thanks.

[Nek]

Just to make it easier for other people trying to use Cardinal as a live instrument, it works perfectly fine in Carla as a LV2 plugin. All keyboard shortcuts work just fine. Tested on MacOS Monterey.

[falkTX]

Was a PITA to install a demo of cubase, luckily I did so in a VM so I can clean it afterwards.
Keyboard input works fine in there.. mostly. a few characters not allowed to be used, otherwise all is fine.

[Nek]

Bitwig 4.2 beta with VST2 is working fine! A very nice combo I must say.

[ratherlargerobot]

I'm using Ardour 6.9.0 (official binary release) on Ubuntu 20.04.4 LTS, with Cardinal from Git commit cab2aa9.

Generally speaking, if Ardour has a hotkey for something, it's intercepting it first. Any key presses not intercepted by Ardour hot keys passes through to Cardinal.

I followed your example with the built-in text editor:

Keys that were intercepted in Ardour:

alqAFLQ`,.<>
<space>
<enter>
<backspace>
<arrow keys>

I forgot to try insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown and the numeric keypad.

Thanks again for doing this! I certainly appreciate Cardinal being available in Ardour!

[falkTX]

If you enable the give-keyboard-to-plugin button, the one on the top-right, can you then enter space and other keys? or always behaves the same way no matter what?

[ratherlargerobot]

That changes the behavior, but ultimately makes it more chaotic.

I was able to type the entire alphabet.

However, once I hit backspace, it got into some sort of loop where it was acting as though I was holding down backspace from that point forward. I guess that may (or may not) be a separate issue.

Pressing the give-keyboard-to-plugin button did let some of the keys come through.

Generally, pressing any key like backspace or enter makes it just keep repeating the action for that key forever, as if I was holding it down even though I'm not.

Progress? :)

[Gsbrt]

oh right, the "one button to rule them all"-style of UX :D

Yes, but it fails to rule

[Gsbrt]

So, what might cause this problem, what might be a solution? Macbook too old? OS not compatible? I have the MOD DUO X, would love to be able to patch Cardinal on the computer and run it on that machine.

[falkTX]

It is.. complicated.
This is part of a constant battle of plugins vs hosts wanting to capture user input, so plugins need special tricks to ensure they have keyboard access, and hosts also do tricky things to ensure plugins don't steal keyboard shortcuts meant for the host.
Ends up in a mess where each side competes for attention.

At least you mentioned the OS and 2 hosts where this happens - ableton and bitwig on macOS - so that is a starting point for me to look into it.

[Gsbrt]

Thanks, I see. I just installed Carla, the universal build. I could open Cardinal within, interacting with Cardinals GUI was working, but also I was not able to add modules.

[falkTX]

to anyone with keyboard focus issues, please retry with the latest build, see the downloads at the bottom of https://github.com/DISTRHO/Cardinal/actions/runs/2230337247
I changed the way the plugin requests keyboard focus to the host, which I assumed to be correct before but seeing other plugins code made me think perhaps not. so testing is appreciated, thanks!

[falkTX]

oh and note the change only applies to vst2, other formats remain unchanged

[falkTX]

actually nevermind it all. the build cache is too extreme and is not producing new binaries.
will write back again once that is solved

[falkTX]

ok now the build is ok and good to try.
you can use this one https://github.com/DISTRHO/Cardinal/actions/runs/2232968150

confirmation is very appreciated.

[Gsbrt]

ok now the build is ok and good to try. you can use this one https://github.com/DISTRHO/Cardinal/actions/runs/2232968150

confirmation is very appreciated.

Unfortunately does not work for me on 2020 Macbook macOS Big Sur, tried as plugin in Ableton, Bitwig and Carla, control+click was not possible, also connecting with the MOD DUO X was not possible.

[falkTX]

is it only ctrl+click that is not working, or any text at all also does not work?
I mean, can you write anything on the text editor? (there should be one in every new-patch-template on the latest builds)

[Gsbrt]

Everything else just works. I can write in the text editor, manipulate knobs, make sound, also open other patches.

[falkTX]

was that the case with stock 22.04, without the update I posted?
(if so, then I know what is going on, though will revert the special hack I added then)

[falkTX]

@Gsbrt ctrl + click is now handled on latest builds, same way as official rack does.
Let me know if that works for you now, thanks

[Gsbrt]

was that the case with stock 22.04, without the update I posted? (if so, then I know what is going on, though will revert the special hack I added then)

Yes, making sound and manipulating knobs did work initially and still does.

[Gsbrt]

was that the case with stock 22.04, without the update I posted? (if so, then I know what is going on, though will revert the special hack I added then)

Still does not work in either Bitwig or Ableton live on my Mac.

[falkTX]

I was able to reproduce this in reaper on macOS, fix was just to delay the keyboard focus grab for a few iterations after the UI is open.
reaper sets the focus back to itself after opening an UI, which blocks Cardinal from receiving keys. but if we set the focus a bit later we can take it away from reaper and into Cardinal.

Might fix it for other hosts, testing is much appreciated.

[Gsbrt]

I just tried in Ableton live and Bitwig on macOS, control+click still doesn´t work.

[falkTX]

weird, that works just fine for me. I map it to the control key though, not command key.
in any case, that is a separate issue, probably should be tracked in a different ticket.

this specific ticket/issue is about hosts not receiving any keyboard input at all.
supposedly that is fixed now.

[Gsbrt]

Ah, I see.
Is there any other option to add modules via the menu of Cardinal and not this specific key combination?

[falkTX]

Typically that would be right-click.
Lots of things in Cardinal / Rack rely on right-click to work.

So even if we had another way to popup the module browser, experience would not be very good.
I can still easily add it though, better than nothing...

[falkTX]

Actually, pressing "enter" while nothing is in focus also opens the module browser.

[Gsbrt]

Yes! That worked for me. Thanks! Next step will be to see if the connection between Cardinal plugin and MOD DUO X will work, would love to be able to use VCV patches on that device.

[falkTX]

open a new ticket for that, if there is an issue. otherwise the discussions tab is there to continue such conversations.

[falkTX]

I am closing this ticket due to lack of feedback.
Only host I was able to reproduce the issue in was reaper, because it wants the focus to himself when first showing the plugin UI. So in v22.05 Cardinal will try to get keyboard focus after a short delay. Works in reaper, so I am guessing it will work for other hosts too.

Let me know if the issue still happens with 22.05 (release to be tagged today)

[geduardcatalindev]

I have reproduced this issue in Cakewalk and LMMS on Windows 10 both with the stable release and latest nightly release.

[ambewas]

still reproducible in logic pro on m1 mac